70 replies to this topic

[Mi Ro Ki]

Well the hilarity of the smoke jag front. They couldn't even leave their homeworld until they just had a recent mass of population move into that faction, even MS couldn't get their first planet until others followed. Now the good units can win matches but when you can't field enough players to stop the long tom or stop the planet flipping despite winning 99% matches in invasion or scout, the long tom is . So it still shows whether you have long tom or population mass you're going to lose planets regardless of skill.

I tend to scout until the long tom is gone because i've experienced the divine rod on the first day for lolz. It certainly needs to be modified in some way since RNG with intel spwn collecting is also at play.

[Stephen Grendal]

As far as the Tom......... Nerf/Repair/Lengthen Time Perhaps make it so it can not do more than 1 or 2 head damage per strike

Carl Vickers, on 01 May 2016 - 10:13 PM, said:

Really, I was in IS a week ago and had no issues wreaking streak crows with a blackjack and I consider myself to be very average. Use advantages the IS have that crows do not, Griffin with ecm and jump jets, oxide, blackjacks. Try them, they work.

This is true, worked with about 3 or 4 different groups and started a scout strategy that works (Even if some whining Clan members told us to unistall the game if we were going to play like that) It's a game mode that requires a different approach than the Invasion FW matches. Adapt and overcome, do no scream at developers trying to bring a different element into the game because of your lack of conviction to win.

[PyckenZot]

Is Tom hitting a bit hard? Yes, probably. But he also needs to be strong enough to provide incentive to go on scout drops. If he hurts you too much, go scouting first.

Voted no.

(And before the comments on clanners come. We'll most probably be IS again after this contract)

[feeWAIVER]

PyckenZot, on 02 May 2016 - 06:15 AM, said:

Is Tom hitting a bit hard? Yes, probably. But he also needs to be strong enough to provide incentive to go on scout drops. If he hurts you too much, go scouting first.

Voted no.

(And before the comments on clanners come. We'll most probably be IS again after this contract)

When I get home from work and want to play FW, but find Long Tom is enabled, I should instead play a boring 4v4 mode where the objective is to avoid enemy mechs, gather intel nodes, and jump into the drop ship at the last second.

That sounds like the opposite of fun to me. I'd rather play a different game entirely, then log on to MWO and "do my chores" before I can even play the game-mode of my preference.

So your argument is that Scouting is such a lame game-mode that it has to enable a game-breaking effect in another game-mode and effectively shut it down, in order to make it worth playing.That is another problem with Scouting, not Invasion.

[fbj]

If you want your voices heard I suggest you tweet them to Russ. It's about the only time he may reconsider any action that has happened in the game. Once you all become vocal enough, perhaps then they may do something to alleviate the problem. Till then you can discuss all you want on the forums. For they are really only heard and taken care of by the moderators and those who spend their free time reading them.

Edited by fbj, 02 May 2016 - 07:44 AM.

[Lily from animove]

SirMad, on 02 May 2016 - 05:10 AM, said:

maybe some people would play it because it is fun to play the scout modus...

you mean these few guys would sit in the queue waiting for the ghost drop, sure that may happen.

StumbleBee, on 02 May 2016 - 05:13 AM, said:

Um, for fun? For CBills and XP? Why does anyone use invasion or quick play?

Invasions, much LP, high rewards,

Quick play, fastest money.

These modes have a purpose and goal, but gatherin intel is so low rewarding I doubt the majority would play it for "fun purposes"

Edited by Lily from animove, 02 May 2016 - 07:50 AM.

[Mystere]

smokefield, on 01 May 2016 - 11:32 PM, said:

I find this idea to be particulary interesting. Keep the LT as it is now or even go back to initial damage but implement this mechanic. The losing team will have a powerfull way to catch up and scouting missions will have their purpose. It will be realistic too, if you want to call it that way, like calling air support in a losing battle to even the odds.

I find artillery as a mere catch up mechanic not only "Meh!" but also a serious waste of time and effort in achieving artillery superiority.

And in a related note, there so just much drama (e.g. "Remove it NAO!!!") and bad ideas (e.g. No death for a gigantic bomb hitting you in the face? Really?) floating around when a much simpler solution to start with is to do either or both of these:

• reduce damage
  
• use a non-linear damage drop off

Edited by Mystere, 02 May 2016 - 08:29 AM.

[Khereg]

The Long Tom is a little nuts right now and I think PGI knows it, but likely won't take action until the next patch.

In the meantime, the best way to keep it out of the game is focus your faction's best talent on scouting. If the event is making that kind of strategic approach nonviable, then you're probably stuck until the event is over, at a minimum.

As far as scouting goes, if the conversation then turns to "Clams OP", I think PGI is thinking about that one also, but doesn't have a good idea how to address yet. I will say that my assessment of the scouting mode on the whole is that it's too easy for the attackers to win, regardless of clan or IS. All it takes is one fast ecm light to grab a data point, hide out on a big map, and rush the drop zone when the ship arrives. Bring 4 of those and scatter from the get go and there's virtually no way to stop them. It needs to be harder to meet victory conditions as an attacker, preferably with at least "some" fighting involved.

The scouting mode is so new and the potential tactics so varied that I think it's going to take a number of incremental changes brought in over time to get it balanced. Broad, sweeping suggestions like reducing tonnage for clan vs IS won't be terribly helpful and will just identify new and interesting problems to be overcome.

I applaud PGI for bringing something really new into the game. I knew it would potentially have some substantial balance problems (which are exacerbated with only 4 mechs per side in play), and while patience isn't any community's strongest virtue, I think we can be helpful with suggestions as long as we try to stay focused on what the mode is intended to be rather than getting into the nitty gritty detail. At least this early in the evolution of the mode.

Edited by Khereg, 02 May 2016 - 08:05 AM.

[Mystere]

falknir, on 01 May 2016 - 10:17 PM, said:

I was in that game. You guys literally all clustered together and got nailed in a long tom strike, taking out probably ~8 of you.

Still it does need toned down, blast radius reduced, and some damage knocked off it. It's to punishing for slower mechs and players who cannot pay attention.

Quite frankly, players who cannot or willfully do not pay attention deserve a gigantic bomb hitting them in the noggins.

Edited by Mystere, 02 May 2016 - 08:28 AM.

[Gerwig]

The sad thing is the long tom could be easily fixed, but I expect PGI will take the usual route and come up with some elaborate, resource wasting scheme that takes months to implement and come out to be mediocre at best.

[Mystere]

Gerwig, on 02 May 2016 - 08:14 AM, said:

The sad thing is the long tom could be easily fixed, but I expect PGI will take the usual route and come up with some elaborate, resource wasting scheme that takes months to implement and come out to be mediocre at best.

Well, forum drama does tend to make PGI do such things. So the less drama we have, the less we get those.

[Gerwig]

It's a game.
There are forums.
There will be drama.
I was an implementer on a game long ago. The hardest thing about it was working on something for 4-6 months and watching the players responses when something went live. A player's criticism while often valid, can sometimes be cruel. It was still my duty to wade through the responses, pick them apart, and figure out what was working and what wasn't. I was a volunteer who did not get paid for this. These are professionals who are collecting money from customers. I expect them to fix their mistakes regardless of the amount of drama on the forums. They are collecting money for a product which should be viable.

For that matter, this has been one of the most patient playerbases in history. People gave up money while the product was in its infant stages. They have continued to do so, even though the devlopers have had so many setbacks and mistakes. The majority of forum users have been extremely patient through some dark times.

[Sabertooth1966]

Though I do agree that the mechanic for the long tom is poorly done. I do not believe that it should be removed from the game. Change the interval so that it drops every 2 or 3 satellite passes instead of every one, make the blast respect terrain and buildings and possibly reduce the radius. I have played on an invasion drop with it and it is a "female dog" but I do like what it adds in difficulty, i.e. it makes you think more, not just ball up.


I do find it interesting that it seems that the Steiner players are the ones having so much trouble with this new feature that they seem to want it completely removed. From what I am seeing most of the rest of the IS factions seem to be adapting to it.

Edited by Sabertooth1966, 02 May 2016 - 11:50 AM.

[Gerwig]

As the poll says, remove or nerf. I dont think it should be removed, just changed, so I voted yes.

Posted potential changes before...

Make 1 shot, drop commander controled
Make it only fire on the enemy outside the gate
Nerf the damage and/or spread
Make it take out an ogen or target turrets

Basically there are tons of things that you could make the long tom do that would be viable, but not game breaking.

[Natural Predator]

The long tom should be removed from the game its killing the 12 man company drops. My unit wont even do them if long tom is enabled. Its an utter joke.

[feeWAIVER]

I'm watching the carebear vote to keep LT as it is slowly rise, and I can only assume most of these people won't even play FW after the event. They may dabble in scouting so they can feel like winners playing in a mode that encourages actively avoiding PvP, but will otherwise stay in tier 4 and 5 quick play where they belong.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Why is it always Steiner starting these anti LT threads anyway?

Also if we remove long tom what third bonus would be added for beating you enemy so bad in scouting that you are winning more than 90% of the time?

[StUffz]

How is this suggestion:

- Long Dong Shells must be purchased by the defenders.

- Each time planetary defenders win their match, the counter for LT is reduced by 10%

- percentage reduction won't pass Satellite or ID gain

I like the idea of Long Dong. It gives some kind of turning tides of war in a match. No standard setup and some kind of challenge for the game.

[Gerwig]

It doesn't have to be removed, just changed.

How about a repair and reload drop in a match as an alternative?

[MechB Kotare]

Voted yes because I dont understand why it insta kills. I like the feature though, and if it was to stay, it should definitely be more worth using than Arties in damaging enemy targets.