147 replies to this topic

[smokefield]

Quote

yeeeaaaa... can you imagine that system in the hands of a pug group?

you do realize that it is just an idea and can be polished ? well yeah you areright on one thing..it is PGI afterall...

For example :

- make it an extra module on the mechs that can be unlocked only when you have played 200 CW games.
- make it that a player it cannot launch LT unless it is voted from the start by at least 6 players.
- make it that if a player used LT in a game it will not be able to use it for next 3/5 games, so everyone gets a chance at it.

...we can come up with a good idea and make this more player based that the automated system it is now.

[Dawnstealer]

InnerSphereNews, on 02 May 2016 - 01:41 PM, said:

Greetings MechWarriors,



After evaluating the implementation of the Long Tom and your feedback since the April 19th patch and the April 21st hot-fix, we have completed a server-side change to scale back the power of the Long Tom Artillery, effective immediately. This change has already been completed, and does not require any downtime.
Today’s change is a straight reduction to the Long Tom damage value, from its previous 700 DMG down to 300 DMG.


While the hot-fix on April 21st simply listed a damage reduction for the Long Tom, that change specifically involved the removal of Critical Damage from Long Tom strikes.



This damage reduction for the Long Tom was rolled out today in advance of an upcoming re-write of the code which handles all ‘explosive’ weaponry; Artillery Strikes, Air Strikes, and now the Long Tom. As Russ touched on briefly in the Town Hall from April 29th the explosion code that the Long Tom inherited causes it to behave unpredictably in terms of where and how it deals damage. As an example, the current code gives these strikes a random chance of targeting and destroying a ‘Mechs head component.

It is this kind of behavior that we will be fixing in the May 17th patch, not just for the Long Tom but for all strikes.



While the sheer power of the Long Tom will be reduced with today’s damage reduction and the additional code changes on May 17th, the Long Tom will still be, and should be, a strong offensive weapon.

From the few games I experienced it in, the fact wasn't the overall damage (which for a Long Tom III, SHOULD be huge), but the fact that it apparently always hit the head.

[VikAzgrael]

Led friend to the game, the platoon did not find a game. I am disappointed. What good change if you simply can not play.

[Desintegrator]

No more Long-Tom headshots !?

How boring...

[wanderer]

Quote

Do you mean they dont know how powerful were the clans streaks ? NO IT CAN'T BE
Or you mean they don't know how 55 tons mech class is dominated by stormcrow and his clan XL engine or his capability to boat missile AND lasers is same time? NO IT CAN'T BE

I don't even blame PGI for this one.

I blame the people I see bringing Urbanmechs. Or LRM-equipped lights. Or not realizing brawler mediums eat Streakcrows alive. (FRR pilots have more than demonstrated this). Or have no idea how Scouting even works (I had a PUG where I literally ended up getting 9/10 of the intel for a win...while the other three did nothing and were hunted down and killed).

It's easier for a Clanner PUG to figure out what works against IS PUGs, and that's why more Clan scouts succeed than IS ones right now.

In short, I chalk this up to a lack of human intelligence and many,many knives being brought to the gunfight. When you don't...



Gitguds are had.

[ThatGuy539]

MrKvola, on 03 May 2016 - 06:40 AM, said:

You can not only defend on scouting - you would not be able to gather/recover intel and thus only lose points...

I though whatever points you can gather during a defend mission, and before the enemy is destroyed, counted.

[Scanz]

on the inner sphere map, LT does not appear to enemies !!!!

[Odanan]

Appogee, on 02 May 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

But I like the Uber Tom.

It gives teams a reason to Scout.

Scout is fun. I wouldn't need more reason to play it.

[MrKvola]

ThatGuy539, on 03 May 2016 - 08:56 AM, said:

I though whatever points you can gather during a defend mission, and before the enemy is destroyed, counted.

Nope, only gather intel missions bring intel. Defense only denies intel to the opposing party.

[Mystere]

Appogee, on 02 May 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

But I like the Uber Tom.

It gives teams a reason to Scout.

But John James Rambo cannot handle Long Toms because it's longer that his.

MoonUnitBeta, on 02 May 2016 - 02:08 PM, said:

I still think this should be removed for Art and Air strikes as well.

Void Angel, on 02 May 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

Oh hey, that reminds me:

This exact behavior is exhibited by overheat damage, with the exact same results - a single tick of overheat damage can one-shot a 'mech's head component. Any chance we could get that fixed as well, particularly if the code does happen to be similar?

Please, no more magic force fields protecting the cockpit. If a bomb hits you in the face, you should be dead.

PFC Carsten, on 02 May 2016 - 02:31 PM, said:

I am wondering how much playtesting went into phase 3 seeing now how PGI is backtracking step by step a mechanism that caused and causes major grief in the player community. Especially after PGI president Mr. Bullock repeatedly stating how much work has gone into Phase 3 and how PGI was busy with it for months.

Backtracing? Reducing damage is not the same a removing the entire feature.

Edited by Mystere, 03 May 2016 - 12:16 PM.

[Mystere]

1453 R, on 02 May 2016 - 03:53 PM, said:

Yeebus. Such salt.

Must really burn all the COmmodity Warfare folks' bacon that average solo Joes can go into Scout mode and actually have fun in CW, eh? In a way which is meaningful and impactful on the overall fight for the planet.

I oughta get home and actually see about this whole thing. Normally I avoid CW like a plague zone because the people you tend to find in it are putrid towards anyone without a unit tag, but it sounds like I can really jack those guys up with some recon action. Might be fun to imagine all the delicious tears flowing when bombs from the sky remind you that solos exist, and they now have a means of enacting their vengeance upon CW.

I like your thinking ... this time.

[Mystere]

Rampage, on 02 May 2016 - 07:27 PM, said:

Actually, his one suggestion that I quoted makes perfect sense for a scouting mission. I had thought about suggesting this myself with all the complaints about the Long Tom. Even though teams with skill have easily overcome the Long Tom and in some cases even used it to their own advantage, I understand that many are upset that it has turned their FP meta game on its head. They cannot bunch up and laser Alpha the incoming Mechs without having to worry about getting a Long Tom dropped on their heads and they cannot do the mass brawl push for the same reason. Therefore, the Long Toms destroyed FW complaints.

Giving the team that won the scouting mission full and constant satellite observation so they know their enemies every move might be a suitable reward for winning the scouting matches if PGI decides to remove LT from the game or nerf it into oblivion. It also kind of fits the whole covert information gathering scenario.

I call that very weaksauce. Constant sensor sweeps are pointless against a murder ball in a small map. A real-time display of enemy positions will do next to nothing against such a foe.

A MOAB, on the other hand, will do wonders.

Dee Eight, on 02 May 2016 - 08:11 PM, said:

You haven't been playing scouting missions or reading the forums for the past two weeks at all have you? Stormcrows and Hunchie IICs are THE dominant mechs in scout mode... there is no real inner sphere answer to medium mechs able to hit 100kmh, with 350 ish armor, and able to have 70-90 damage alpha strikes.

Where have you been all week, hiding under a rock?

Edited by Mystere, 03 May 2016 - 12:30 PM.

[Mystere]

Navid A1, on 03 May 2016 - 12:37 AM, said:

Sometimes i feel that the long tom is stealing Cbills from me.

You know... in this game rewards are based on damage and damage alone! Nothing else matters. If you Damage, you get rewards. as simple as that.... but that is another story!

Well, life is so much sweeter if you play to win and not play to farm.

[xWiredx]

So the general misconception here is that long tom is OP and on top of that clans simply dominate in scouting because of SSRM6-laden Stormcrows.

First, streakcrows are somewhat useless against the quirked meta Centurions, Hunchbacks, Griffins, and Shadowhawks. In fact, even the Oxide puts up a ridiculously good fight against them. If you're piloting a Locust or Raven, good luck against them, but otherwise you've got a pretty good shot in a square fight. Plus the Stormcrow is the scouting mode equivalent of a Direwolf, it gets focused first and its legs are almost always the primary target.

Second, it seems like 300 damage is pretty reasonable, given the time and effort it takes to unlock it. In MWLL, in the proper hands the Long Tom is pretty devastating. I don't think we need to hit something that takes a good fight to unlock for use with a bigger nerf bat. I think we could live with the interval being extended. The mentality that it be very spread out, though, instead of a small incremental adjustment to interval, is probably coming entirely from people that are not paying attention and are balling up too tightly thus getting hit repeatedly. I've seen a lot of teams, not even just big unit groups, be able to avoid it fairly well.

[Khobai]

well scout mode is officially pointless now

[ThatGuy539]

MrKvola, on 03 May 2016 - 11:18 AM, said:

Nope, only gather intel missions bring intel. Defense only denies intel to the opposing party.

Welp I guess that's why we get both attack and defend missions.

A bit of a pain in the butt as I'd like to bring a mech that's specific to the task. Oh well, the Arctic Cheetah I've been using has been working well for both modes, most of the time.


I wonder how the game decides which type you get? I would assume it's evenly distributed, so there's an equal number of attack and defense on each side.

[Koniving]

Mcgral18, on 02 May 2016 - 02:21 PM, said:

Does it still have the linear falloff damage?

Because that's still a 267M face killing zone


Although, instead of being a 267-286M Sphere of Death, it's now RNGeesus who decides your face blows up?

Recall the "Splash" mechanic for Clan ER PPCs which actually is not a splash but a specific pathing system?

Artillery, airstrikes and Long Tom all have a area-specific targeting system rather than actual splash. Thing is it just chooses components and throws damage (you may have noticed it doesn't actually 'splash' at all when it damages you). Evidently they realized "Wow, it could exclusively hit your head and boom" and are going to make it exclude the head. It sounds like the upcoming rewrite to the code will make it much more specific in how it deals damage to 'splash' victims and exclude cockpits.

Void Angel, on 02 May 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

Oh hey, that reminds me:


This exact behavior is exhibited by overheat damage, with the exact same results - a single tick of overheat damage can one-shot a 'mech's head component. Any chance we could get that fixed as well, particularly if the code does happen to be similar?

I see Void's on the ball today. Usually it feels like I'm the only one who notices this kind of thing.

Edited by Koniving, 03 May 2016 - 01:15 PM.

[Widowmaker1981]

InnerSphereNews, on 02 May 2016 - 01:41 PM, said:

the current code gives these strikes a random chance of targeting and destroying a ‘Mechs head component.

It is this kind of behavior that we will be fixing in the May 17th patch, not just for the Long Tom but for all strikes.,

Finally!! RNG headshots on fresh mechs are, and always have been a shoddy gameplay mechanic. Realism be damned, these are completely unviable stompy robots shooting absurdly short ranged weapons at each other we are walking around in.. open that realism can of worms and it ends with deciding none of this makes sense in the first place. Its a game, gameplay comes first.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Mystere, on 03 May 2016 - 12:11 PM, said:

Please, no more magic force fields protecting the cockpit. If a bomb hits you in the face, you should be dead.

… except that there isn’t an actual object impacting...
So, yea, sorry to burst your bubble, but the entire consumable that you don't want to be magic? It's entirely magic.

It’s a code that simply runs a radius at a randomly chosen area. And the closer you are to the center the more damage you take.
And how it determines where to put that damage is by randomly choosing components and executing a damage code. And it just so happens that critical hits for heads were included in that code.

But - err- I mean, YEA! Keep that derned magic away! heh heh?

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 03 May 2016 - 01:42 PM.

[Widowmaker1981]

wanderer, on 02 May 2016 - 02:58 PM, said:

Maybe if PUGs actually realized that Skillcrows against other IS 55-tonners are called "target practice" and stopped bringing Urbanmechs for recon, this would change.

Exactly. I played as a 4 man for 22 games in a row n friday night, we won 21 of those games, mostly easily because the enemy team almost always consisted of streak boating crows. My team consisted of a not especially meta HBK-4SP, CDA-3M, BJ-1X and me in various 55 tonnners (WVR-6K, GRF-2N, Sparky). Streaks do not deal well with a 4SP. Not well at all.

Even ravens played (very) carefully should be able to deal with them - just have to stay outside 250m (CAP range)

edit: i should point out that despite winning continuously, it was all we could do to hold the planet at 84-88%, as soon as we stopped to form a full FW group the planet got long tommed (we obviously didnt drop there, because why would you?)

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 03 May 2016 - 01:35 PM.