129 replies to this topic

[Cyborne Elemental]

Just to start this off, I'm really trying to avoid all the tin-foil hat aspects of this, although I think that what is going on brings up some serious and legitimate concerns regarding Windows-10.

The more I start to read about what Tech guys and people with the skills and tools who know how to watch for these things and what they're discovering about Windows-10 is actually alarming and scares the crap out of me, just because of the potential for abuse and exploitation.

Now I'm going to start with the assumption that a good handful of you guys have either heard or read about Windows-10 integrated Data Collection and Telemetry.

Since the beginning public release of the test versions of Windows-10, Microsoft has been using a Data mining system with Telemetry that uploads statistical information and Data about usage of every single aspect of a users interaction with the Windows-10 OS.

WIn-10 records encrypted log files of your programs you're running and for how long, audio samples of the Voice activated assistant Cortana, screen captures of any Web-cam you're using, as well as KEYLOGGING anything you type on your keyboard. (big brother?)

This information is collected clientside, then uploaded to up to 120 different IP addresses either owned or operated by Microsoft.

And to windows-7 & windows-8 users, watch out, because Microsoft has incorporated the same data collection/Telemetry system into recent Windows Updates, these are a little easier to work around, but since Windows-10 is Automated windows Update which is Forced, and gives users no option to manually select which updates get installed, its a little trickier.

This is their Telemetry system in a nutshell. And Home/Professional Users CAN NOT disable a majority of these settings to collect data, Microsoft is only going to allow their Enterprise edition which is expensive as hell to disable it fully, and they've yet to put a release date as to when it will be distributed, and have no plans to disable it or allow it to be disabled on Home/Professional installs of Windows-10.

This means at any given time, windows-10 is eating up some of your bandwidth to relay this information back to microsoft servers.

Now for the Tinfoil hat stuff.

Supposedly Win-10 has the capability to disable or uninstall 3d party programs and apps which are decided to either be pirated software AUTOMATICALLY and WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT, or programs and files that get black listed that could be legitimate but are not registered with Microsoft to be able to be ran on Win-10.

I've read that Bit-Torrent sites are banning users using Windows-10 out of fear that the data collection will start allowing Cyber branches of the NSA and FBI to start cracking down on Computer Piracy and other illegal data going over the web.
Now we all know that Microsoft has been going crazy trying to stop people from stealing their OS and running it illegally without paying for it, that isn't news.

But then I start seeing more detailed explanations such as this, and it leaves me scratching my head, and I have to wonder, how are they getting away with this if it is in fact this Invasive and stripping us of our rights to privacy.. let alone the security factors of having ANYONE know where everything is on your Personal computer, especially all our pron

This is kinda what got me scared to start with, try to be gentle, but please listen to it, because it raises some pretty scary and legitimate issues, with the potential to really change how we use our computers should this all be true, and actually moves forward instead of being fought against.

I want to know what you guys think, because this is pretty insane..

Also listen at 7:50 about some really strange connection to Edward Snowden and what he uncovered when he stole all those FBI database files, if its legitimate of course.

Edited by Mister D, 04 May 2016 - 02:08 AM.

[Triordinant]

The bottom line is, conspiracy theories or otherwise, there's no good reason for the average PC user to switch to Windows 10. Windows 7 is good until 2020 and you can decide at that point what you want to do.

[Ghos7bearD]

Triordinant, on 03 May 2016 - 09:44 PM, said:

The bottom line is, conspiracy theories or otherwise, there's no good reason for the average PC user to switch to Windows 10. Windows 7 is good until 2020 and you can decide at that point what you want to do.

This. W7 for Games..for MWO, Linux for the rest. Don't trust big (US) firms like Microsoft and others.

[Cyborne Elemental]

How easy is Linux to work with?
I've heard people mention Zorin-OS, and Linux-Mint, and that people are actually able to game on them now.
How hard is it to learn?

[Ghos7bearD]

Working here with a Dell XPS 13, no problem.

Had install my parents (middle of 60) also Linux, they have no problems.. so.. My wife has also Linux on her Laptop.

[zagibu]

Triordinant, on 03 May 2016 - 09:44 PM, said:

The bottom line is, conspiracy theories or otherwise, there's no good reason for the average PC user to switch to Windows 10. Windows 7 is good until 2020 and you can decide at that point what you want to do.

Did you miss the part that says how Microsoft is sneaking the same crap packed as Updates onto Windows 7 as well?

[jonfett]

I installed Linux Mint w/ Cinnamon on an old Dell latitude D610. It runs pretty well on that old hardware. Mint's shell looks similar to Windows XP, so it's a good transition OS.

[William Mountbank]

I know I'm in the minority, but I really love Win10. I was a diehard win7 guy, but I find W10 just so much faster, smoother, customisable, usable, attractive, etc...

The monitoring issue I would say is overblown, but you can find guides online for disabling the policies and whatnot. But most of it is not user specific, or if it is it's local and used by Cortana.

All the tech forums I read have everyone hating W10 so much, so I guess on statistics if you haven't tried it you will absolutely hate it. But I would take it just for the instant startup alone, let alone all the other improvements its. You couldn't pay me to go back to Win7 now.

[zagibu]

Mister D, on 03 May 2016 - 10:26 PM, said:

How easy is Linux to work with?
I've heard people mention Zorin-OS, and Linux-Mint, and that people are actually able to game on them now.
How hard is it to learn?

Modern linux distributions come fully prepared for the end user. They have a graphical user interface with windows and configuration center etc. like Windows, so that part is unproblematic. One of the main problems is that hardware vendors usually don't provide drivers for Linux, so you have to hope that a third party is writing a driver for your hardware (which usually happens, but not always).
Apart from that, Linux also has a different philosophy when it comes to how the filesystem is structured and how files are organized. It doesn't know "drives", and instead works with a single tree, into which different partitions are "mounted". So you don't really know (but usually also don't care) on which drive or partition your stuff sits, unless you display the mount points. Instead of packing all the files of a program into a single installation directory (which used to be the case on Windows, but isn't quite like this anymore either nowadays), it distributes files based on type to different places. E.g. configuration files are in /etc, log files are in /var/log, and so on.
A third main difference is that you usually don't manually install software. There is a package manager that contains most of the software regular people need, and installing such a software package is as simple as browsing a catalog, selecting the package you need and clicking install. This also has the benefit that there is a central place to update all software on the system. It also means that the above mentioned filesystem difference doesn't really matter that much, because you rarely have to fiddle with files of installed software directly.
There are many more differences, but I feel these are the major ones that will concern regular users.

Now when it comes to gaming, Linux isn't really a great choice in my opinion. The reason for this is that most commercial games rely on Microsoft-exclusive technologies like DirectX, which is simply not available on Linux. There are ways around this, and sometimes, they work well, but sometimes, you can't get a game to run at all.
However, this could change in the future, because Steam is heavily promoting Linux as gaming platform, and most of the modern game engines now allow to make a build for the Linux platform as well. If you go to steampowered.com and select Linux, you can see that some of the modern AAA games now have a Linux version as well.

[Ghos7bearD]

William Mountbank, on 03 May 2016 - 11:15 PM, said:

I know I'm in the minority, but I really love Win10. I was a diehard win7 guy, but I find W10 just so much faster, smoother, customisable, usable, attractive, etc...

The monitoring issue I would say is overblown, but you can find guides online for disabling the policies and whatnot. But most of it is not user specific, or if it is it's local and used by Cortana.

All the tech forums I read have everyone hating W10 so much, so I guess on statistics if you haven't tried it you will absolutely hate it. But I would take it just for the instant startup alone, let alone all the other improvements its. You couldn't pay me to go back to Win7 now.

https://media.ccc.de...botnet#download

English Video at Downloads.

Edited by Norsfyr, 03 May 2016 - 11:33 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Here this is easier.
Youtube link about Microsoft-Botnet, in english.
Bad interpreter halfway through, very hard to understand this section, but then a better translator finishes the rest of the video.

Edited by Mister D, 04 May 2016 - 12:15 AM.

[Ghos7bearD]

Ah ok, don't know there is a yt video, thx.

[Notorious Meerkat]

Ed Bott and many other knowledgeable characters dismantled plenty of FUD already (just list the articles). Data collection for improvements and other uses (such as advertising, khm, Google, khm) isn't anything new. That said, Microsoft's moves to shove Win10 down everyone's throat isn't exactly nice.

Still, I am a very happy user of Win10 - but I made my decision for all machines without being forced, after a few months of testing the so called Insider builds. AFAIK, there are ways to stop the Win10 upgrade and continue using whatever you're using now, but it is silly one needs to perform such actions just to avoid the upgrade. Meh.

Edited by Notorious Meerkat, 04 May 2016 - 01:00 AM.

[Random Carnage]

Notorious Meerkat, on 04 May 2016 - 12:57 AM, said:

Ed Bott

His middle name isn't 209 by any chance?

[Notorious Meerkat]

Random Carnage, on 04 May 2016 - 01:10 AM, said:

His middle name isn't 209 by any chance?

LMFAO!

[Appogee]

Thanks for this post.

I was unaware that MS were also retrofitting spyware to Windows 7.

I'll uninstall those updates on principle.

[VorpalAnvil]

For Win7&8 users:

https://www.safer-ne...ot-anti-beacon/

http://blog.ultimate...tly-remove.html

Edited by VorpalAnvil, 04 May 2016 - 01:20 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Well if your a clean citizen, that watches no porn doesn't pirate why worry unless you a criminal ?

Says much about bit-torrent sites don't it.

While I don't agree with what MS do, its backed by governments pretending to give freedom to it's citizens while working behind the scene to make the 'free' west as controlling as any currant dictatorship, one could say the alleged 'evil' ones are at least being honest with it's citizens and not giving the pretence of free will.

I'm just surprised people think things like Win10 and its data collection are so surprising.

Use your credit card to pay for something they know where you'd been, make a phone call you can be traced, don't honestly think all law enforcement goes to the courts every day asking permission do you ? That only happens when they think they gotcha !

[kesmai]

Right Cathy. Except you are a turkish journalist, or a russian investigating in Putins wealth. Or your interested getting information about the reason General Dynamics won the latest arms deal.
In short dear cathy, people like you have given away their rights already, so never complain if the stick turns at you.

[Cyborne Elemental]

I don't condone Software Piracy, I am actually glad that some measure is finally going after data theft, because developers work hard to develop software and games for people to purchase and play, every time you're downloading and using pirated software, you're taking a meal out of the mouth of the developers.

But its the depth of what is at stake here, allowing ANY company the right to collect, store, and potentially use any Intellectual Property that a person creates on his Computer is insane..

Let alone the Privacy invasion aspects of having a Microphone tap, Keylogger that records every single keypress you type on your keyboard, video from your PC or Smartphone's camera being transmitted with or without your explicit consent.. Thats a line that should not EVER be crossed. ever.

And this is the knife twisting.
WIndows-10 privacy settings does allow you to disable some of these features to stop some of it, but then you read reports from tech guys using IP & port trackers watch as these disabled features still continue to send the data from the settings you just disabled.

Edited by Mister D, 04 May 2016 - 02:46 AM.