31 replies to this topic

[Bud Crue]

With all the complaining about scouting, long tom damage, Russ' performance/comments at the last town hall I may have missed any substantive discussion on this, but in my view the biggest complaint I have with P3 is that the reward progression paths totally missed the mark.

By introducing a new rewards path for mercs while maintaining the status quo for loyalists (keeping in mind that prior to P3 mercs were also benefiting from the loyalist rewards path) all that was done is to introduce a mechanism that was designed to encourage everyone who wasn't already a Merc to become one. I assume that was intended, but why? Why do we want to encourage "faction play" to be about mercenary units rather than factions? Am I missing something here?

[IceFire]

What bothers me (merc player) is that the population bonus % is based on total population, not active population. When faction play came out Liao was at a 50% bonus, but after that its only ever +10% and if I'm lucky, MAYBE +20% on either smoke jag or liao/marik (all of whom are the laughing stock of facwar)

[Kael Posavatz]

Yep, a lot here doesn't make sense. Other people have brought it up. No real word from PGI about this.

Issues:
-New rewards for mercs. No new rewards for loyalist. If you've already maxed a loyalist tier too bad. If you hopped around like a bunny grabbing the mechbays that pop up early in the loyalist tiers. Good bunny. Here is a new tier for you!

-GXP. The 90-k GXP at the last two tiers really does not make much sense. But they time you get here you should have enough GXP to have unlocked all of your side (IS or Clan) modules.

-C-bills. Mercenaries get paid more for fighting than your own troops do. It is there is the definition of 'mercenary'. But the Merc tier offers barely 2/3 the c-bills the loyalists get

-Cockpit items. Loyalists get (largely) a bunch of arbitrary cockpit items. Faction content (cockpit items, colors, patterns, decals when they come out) make so much more sense, and separate the, say, Liao Loyalists from the Wolves.

[Feral Goose]

And then there is the issue that this promotes an already gaping exploit (that all points to be by design) of having large Merc teams sign on short or long contract to opposing factions. There is no game in existence, where having the ability to influence the outcome of an enemy team (faction) by having team members participating in enemy team's defenses would not be considered an exploit.
This isn't a breach of the code of conduct, because no names are being offered here, even though naming the very large Merc group wouldn't be a violation either, unless they want to start bending the CoC rules pretty hard.

This has been done. Defense matches suspiciously lost by the same 4-man scouting and 12-invasion teams when dropping on another faction's defense planet, but then go on to be very successful with their A-game when they drop in their current factions invasions and scouting.

Mercs are the detriment to any faction warefare, when they can sabotage so easily with little penalty in playing both sides. In reality, mercs are used for all kinds of warfare, but mercs tend to have a short lifespan when they are found out to work for 2 opposing nations.

[Darwins Dog]

As I understand it, the intention was always for the focus to be on merc units (the url is mwomercs.com). Russ said something similar at one point. Most units are supposed to be mercs with the loyalists representing more of a role-playing crowd. Not saying I agree with that, it's just what I heard.

For a completely new FP player, the loyalist path is the most profitable. There are 20 ranks to the merc's 10, and the individual ranks have more rewards. That matters less to the experienced crowd who do get hosed by the change. I think it may have been more fair to start everyone at 0 withe the new rewards (which is essentially what they did for mercs).

[Deathlike]

Actually, Loyalist units have lost the juicy 50% LP bonus from what used to be perma contracts (and I don't believe LP rewards were scaled/altered to compensate) and since Loyalists don't have any form of perpetual rewards (Rank 20 = no need, even though you could use more faction medallions and/or mechbays), PGI doubled down on screwing Loyalists altogether.

Edited by Deathlike, 04 May 2016 - 11:38 AM.

[Satan n stuff]

Bud Crue, on 04 May 2016 - 05:52 AM, said:

With all the complaining about scouting, long tom damage, Russ' performance/comments at the last town hall I may have missed any substantive discussion on this, but in my view the biggest complaint I have with P3 is that the reward progression paths totally missed the mark.

By introducing a new rewards path for mercs while maintaining the status quo for loyalists (keeping in mind that prior to P3 mercs were also benefiting from the loyalist rewards path) all that was done is to introduce a mechanism that was designed to encourage everyone who wasn't already a Merc to become one. I assume that was intended, but why? Why do we want to encourage "faction play" to be about mercenary units rather than factions? Am I missing something here?

You haven't noticed that mercs get half the rank rewards for the same amount of time spent?

[Deathlike]

Satan n stuff, on 04 May 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

You haven't noticed that mercs get half the rank rewards for the same amount of time spent?

While true, Merc units in previous phases would just get LP bonuses like everyone else (not to the same degree), but reaching Rank 20 in a faction there was still achievable (assuming you stayed long enough in a faction). The difference now is that they get another set of rewards (unaffected by any LP rewards of course) while Loyalists... well, get nothing new.

Edited by Deathlike, 04 May 2016 - 02:00 PM.

[Bud Crue]

If we all started at a base line with introduction of P3, then I would agree that the half sized merc rewards path sucks, but for the vast majority of players* who have been playing for some time on the former rewards path (i.e. loyalist), the new merc path is just a gift or added bonus for those who made a habit of jumping factions (i.e. mercs). Former loyalists, particularly those of higher rank can only gain the benefits of this new system - loyalist or merc - by changing the nature of how they play. Add the loss of the LP bonus that loyalists used to get, and you have a "faction play" mode that doesn't seem to have much to do with factions and encourage anyone but the newest players to be loyalist to them. That just seems kind of short sighted and frankly, well, lame.

*if P3 suddenly attracts lots of new players then obviously this analysis doesn't hold up as well but still it does screw veteran players who were/remain loyalist for no good reason.

[Kyria Clearwater]

Ill point out that the MC Rewards and mechbays are the SAME for the Merc path, just over 10 ranks instead of 20, some of the other rewards not so much. But most of the mercs already had piles of stuff from rainbow achievements before. So now they have -more- rewards.

For new players, they may not get flashy banners, cockpit items and such but they are getting the same 'monetary' based rewards.

[Kael Posavatz]

Yes, but again, Mercs are Mercs

So why do loyalists get 50% more c-bills?

[Bud Crue]

Kael Posavatz, on 04 May 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

Yes, but again, Mercs are Mercs

So why do loyalists get 50% more c-bills?

Uh, they don't. As far as I know (unless something changed via the last hot fix or something) Loyalists get base mission amount and nothing more.

http://mwomercs.com/...-2016/#loyalist

Did something change?

[Hang Jebat]

I think there should be a voting system like what we have for FW on whether or not a merc unit joins a faction.
eg. So and so merc unit wants to join Davion under contract, then the units in Davion vote if they accept the merc unit. If less then 50% vote yes, the merc unit has to try another faction. If no faction accepts them, then they become free lancers because they have no contract.

[Bud Crue]

Hang Jebat, on 04 May 2016 - 07:04 PM, said:

I think there should be a voting system like what we have for FW on whether or not a merc unit joins a faction.
eg. So and so merc unit wants to join Davion under contract, then the units in Davion vote if they accept the merc unit. If less then 50% vote yes, the merc unit has to try another faction. If no faction accepts them, then they become free lancers because they have no contract.

Yes, its a nice idea to put the factions in control of faction play. But, for good or ill, mercs are the core of the FP game now and as far as I can tell will always be. Restricting mercs to the whims of such a voting scheme would produce howls of indignation that I can't even imagine. Nope in this game, mercs rule the game with the factions acting as mere theaters of operation. The loyalists exist just to give the mercs a bit less of a wait in the queue.

[Monkey Lover]

IceFire, on 04 May 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

, smoke jag or liao/marik (all of whom are the laughing stock of facwar)

Edited by Monkey Lover, 05 May 2016 - 07:11 AM.

[Feral Goose]

Mercs are the detriment to faction warfare. Having larger merc units be able to sign short contracts with both sides of a battle to control the faction they want to win is ridiculous. I think, having the faction having the power with the vote, to decide to allow a merc unit from contracting, is a start to the problem, but doesn't fix the issue with them just contracting with an ally faction, instead, and just drop in your faction's defense planets, any ways, to sabotage them.

Edited by Feral Goose, 05 May 2016 - 07:45 AM.

[Hang Jebat]

How about Mercs not allowed to have tags on planets?
Mercs are contracted to a faction, aka "working" for the faction to achieve that faction's goals, which in this case is planetary defense and offence. The planets they take or defend should go to the faction and not the merc unit. Either have no tag on the planet when taken/defended or have it tagged by the most dropped loyalist unit.

[Bud Crue]

Hang Jebat, on 05 May 2016 - 09:51 AM, said:

How about Mercs not allowed to have tags on planets?
Mercs are contracted to a faction, aka "working" for the faction to achieve that faction's goals, which in this case is planetary defense and offence. The planets they take or defend should go to the faction and not the merc unit. Either have no tag on the planet when taken/defended or have it tagged by the most dropped loyalist unit.

See previous discussions of this topic here:

http://mwomercs.com/...for-merc-units/

I think that thread should give you a fair indication of how this sort of thing would go over. Too complex or just not enough motivation from PGI to institute. Not sure, but P3 gave them the opportunity to address it, and they didn't. Can't see that changing any time soon.

Edited by Bud Crue, 05 May 2016 - 09:58 AM.

[Jman5]

Once a loyalist hits 20, it should bank your rewards and let you grind them out again.

I also think that Loyalist rank should act as a vote multiplier. The more invested you are in fighting for your faction, the more say you should have on who you attack.

[crustydog]

I think you guys should read the novels, to see how mercs fit into the battletech universe. The subject is more complex than it first appears.

Also, before everybody goes all anti-merc, you might take the time to realize that many of the mercs who participate in this game have been in their units long before this version of mechwarrior came along, and they also happen to be one of the largest and most stable sources of constant revenue for PGI. They carry the entire company.

Drive them away and watch what happens to PGI and MWO.

So be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.