99 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Escef, on 07 May 2016 - 07:47 AM, said:

The problem I've had with the Rifleman is that the hardpoints scream for more tonnage than it has available. Most of the builds result in it being a slower, non-jumping Blackjack or a less effective Jagermech with slightly better hitboxes.

That said, there are some effective builds for it, but you are definitely going to take the mid to long range firesupport option most of the time. Best I've done with it is the 3C with 280XL, 2xAC10 (3 tons ammo), 2xMG (0.5 tons ammo), and 4xSL.

the fact the "big ballistic" RFL got the worst ballistics cooldown has made me rather dislike the 3C. Well, that and not being able to put my lasers in the arms, too. I find the ballistics velocity and cooldown on the 3N more than comps for the relatively weak structure buffs.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 07 May 2016 - 09:26 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

MechWarrior5152251, on 07 May 2016 - 05:18 AM, said:

Does a Rifleman have any advantage over a Jagermech?

• More energy hardpoints to compensate for lower tonnage
  
• Better torso twist
  
• Far superior acceleration and deceleration (50-70% bonus, depending on variant)

Jagermech has:

• Good structure quirks, where Rifleman has none
  
• Bigger engine cap
  
• 5 more tons (more armour, more structure, but less speed)

The Jagermech is a superior brawler, but the Rifleman could be a better sniper, I think. Except that it can't run dual gauss very well. It can do it though. I don't think it's going to suck as a dual gauss carrier. Just not as good as the Jagermech.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a6c0ea772799927

Edited by Alistair Winter, 07 May 2016 - 08:50 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

El Bandito, on 07 May 2016 - 05:44 AM, said:

I have yet to see a Rifleman config that can beat a Jager-DD with triple UAC5s.

The one with twin PPCs will put it down, simply because UACs are useless if they can't stare and the 5D requires no staring.

[DAYLEET]

Yeonne Greene, on 07 May 2016 - 09:02 AM, said:

The one with twin PPCs will put it down, simply because UACs are useless if they can't stare and the 5D requires no staring.

you can do ppcs on a jagger. But 3 uac5 will be able to sustain fire indefinitly and fire twice as often while staying in the jam-free zone. twist damage if you want, it will just take one of your arm off then you only have 1 ppc.

[Bishop Steiner]

Alistair Winter, on 07 May 2016 - 08:48 AM, said:

• More energy hardpoints to compensate for lower tonnage
  
• Better torso twist
  
• Far superior acceleration and deceleration (50-70% bonus, depending on variant)

Jagermech has:

• Good structure quirks, where Rifleman has none
  
• Bigger engine cap
  
• 5 more tons (more armour, more structure, but less speed)

The Jagermech is a superior brawler, but the Rifleman could be a better sniper, I think. Except that it can't run dual gauss very well. It can do it though. I don't think it's going to suck as a dual gauss carrier. Just not as good as the Jagermech.


http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a6c0ea772799927

best sniper is propping the PPCs into the highest slot on the 5D or using those slots and the CT for ERLL and using 3xERLL with a bunch of smalls for infighting

[Y E O N N E]

DAYLEET, on 07 May 2016 - 09:31 AM, said:

you can do ppcs on a jagger. But 3 uac5 will be able to sustain fire indefinitly and fire twice as often while staying in the jam-free zone. twist damage if you want, it will just take one of your arm off then you only have 1 ppc.

You can't do PPCs as well on a Jager. It is slower at peeking, slower at walking, easier to hit, cannot shield side torsos at all, and it has dramatically slower projectile velocity on the UACs compared to the PPC. I'm just going to peak and fire and he's going to maybe get 15 damage across 2 or 3 components while I deal 20 to one. Factor in the existence of multiple targets for him to worry about, and it'll get blasted off of the map unless his team locks up my team, including myself, in a brawl. But then, anything goes; the Jager is not the only 'Mech that is dangerous when ignored. We only typically bring Jagers when we can't bring Maulers.

Also, you can put the PPCs in one arm, though I almost never lose Rifleman arms. Also, the same weakness applies to the Jager.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 07 May 2016 - 10:00 AM.

[KodiakGW]

290 engine cap. Some have said you just need to play it like a medium....

...an 84.2 Kph max medium.

[DaZur]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 May 2016 - 09:35 AM, said:

best sniper is propping the PPCs into the highest slot on the 5D or using those slots and the CT for ERLL and using 3xERLL with a bunch of smalls for infighting

I've experimented with multiple mechs and configurations and for my money... the RFL--5D is far and away the apex ePPC sniper...

The acceleration/deceleration quirks, the range and cool quirks, + range and cooling modules in conjunction to its weapon placement (the high arm mount) just make a devastating combination IMHO

[DAYLEET]

Yeonne Greene, on 07 May 2016 - 09:57 AM, said:

You can't do PPCs as well on a Jager. It is slower at peeking, slower at walking, easier to hit, cannot shield side torsos at all, and it has dramatically slower projectile velocity on the UACs compared to the PPC. I'm just going to peak and fire and he's going to maybe get 15 damage across 2 or 3 components while I deal 20 to one. Factor in the existence of multiple targets for him to worry about, and it'll get blasted off of the map unless his team locks up my team, including myself, in a brawl. But then, anything goes; the Jager is not the only 'Mech that is dangerous when ignored. We only typically bring Jagers when we can't bring Maulers.

Also, you can put the PPCs in one arm, though I almost never lose Rifleman arms. Also, the same weakness applies to the Jager.

All good points except velocity, get closer. My Firebrand has 2 ppc and 2 ac5, time to take it for a drive next week.

[Y E O N N E]

DAYLEET, on 07 May 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

All good points except velocity, get closer. My Firebrand has 2 ppc and 2 ac5, time to take it for a drive next week.

That's the point, though; I'm way faster than the triple UAC/5 Jager, why would I allow it to get closer? I'm also way faster than a Jager sporting two PPCs and two AC/5, though that one is far more competitive than the triple UAC/5 build at trading.

[DAYLEET]

Yeonne Greene, on 07 May 2016 - 10:28 AM, said:

That's the point, though; I'm way faster than the triple UAC/5 Jager, why would I allow it to get closer? I'm also way faster than a Jager sporting two PPCs and two AC/5, though that one is far more competitive than the triple UAC/5 build at trading.

Im in the pug queue, anyone who runs to get range doom his team. Sure he might mop the floor once in a while but i wouldnt try true sniping outside of CW or without guild mate to defend myself when a single light comes to end your party.

Your only perk is that you are going to get ignored like most light/meds sporting 2 ppcs. Lights and Meds can position themselves a lot better without removing an important heavy slot.


Im out of my element here anyways as i dont do true sniping. I cringe when i get one on my team but they rarely have ppcs. At least ppcs can be good for the team.

Edited by DAYLEET, 07 May 2016 - 10:36 AM.

[cazidin]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 May 2016 - 07:54 AM, said:

with the revision to it's quirks, probably a few more than before. I still love finding schmucks in ARCs that think they're good then filling em full of Dakka. Only thing that varies is how far away I engage from. LRMs I hug, SRMs I stay outside 200 meters, preferably 300.

Like any mech, the RFL included, it seems to have clicked real well for some people, others try to strut their Underhive accomplishments like it's actually proof the chassis is good, but the quick decline in numbers of both the RFL and ARC in queue tells the true story on both chassis.

Well, that and some pusses can only run a 60 tonner if it's quirked ot be as tough as a 90 tonner. But that's a lack of skills issue, not a an actual mech issue.

So, the Archer may become like the Black Knight - an underrated mech that shines with nice quirks? Only it won't XL well and the bay door thing is still annoying.

[C E Dwyer]

LT. HARDCASE, on 07 May 2016 - 08:03 AM, said:

I really want the laser vomit one, but having to buy 3 to get the best out of it will probably make me pass on the chassis.

this isn't supposed to be crittical of LT, but this statement I think encompasses, exactly what is wrong with this game, when a mech is only wanted for its laser vomit

[TercieI]

Cathy, on 07 May 2016 - 11:13 AM, said:

this isn't supposed to be crittical of LT, but this statement I think encompasses, exactly what is wrong with this game, when a mech is only wanted for its laser vomit

You're not wrong.

(But it's the only RFL worth anything...)

[Bishop Steiner]

cazidin, on 07 May 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

So, the Archer may become like the Black Knight - an underrated mech that shines with nice quirks? Only it won't XL well and the bay door thing is still annoying.

and missiles will never be ezmode like laservomit

TercieI, on 07 May 2016 - 11:22 AM, said:

You're not wrong.

(But it's the only RFL worth anything...)

My 3N regularly disproves that, but I would say it's more the mech matches the man than because the RFL is amazing, in itself. It's certainly not a MetaMech for the Unwashed Masses. But I'm OK with that as long as it clicks with me. Not every mech should be good for every player.

[TercieI]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 May 2016 - 12:01 PM, said:

My 3N regularly disproves that, but I would say it's more the mech matches the man than because the RFL is amazing, in itself. It's certainly not a MetaMech for the Unwashed Masses. But I'm OK with that as long as it clicks with me. Not every mech should be good for every player.

I think that's an overrated phenomenon, personally. Good players can figure out how to run most any mech to near its potential (lights and assaults sometimes less so). I do fine in RFL, they just don't do anything various other mechs don't do significantly better (EXC that LK is probably the best AC/2 mech in the game...for what little that's worth).

Edited by TercieI, 07 May 2016 - 12:20 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

TercieI, on 07 May 2016 - 12:17 PM, said:

I think that's an overrated phenomenon, personally. Good players can figure out how to run most any mech to near its potential (lights and assaults sometimes less so). I do fine in RFL, they just don't do anything various other mechs don't do significantly better (EXC that LK is probably the best AC/2 mech in the game...for what little that's worth).

that'd be great except 99% of players aren't "good" players who can do well in any chassis. And yet some of those bad players play above their weight in what is considered "bad chassis".

For Jimi Hendrix or Prince playing multiple instruments seemed easy. For most of humanity becoming truly good at one instrument is an accomplishment, and some people who are almost virtuoso at a one instrument sometimes outright suck at "simpler" ones.

Of course, I do feel like I just insulted musicians by comparing their accomplishments to video games.

[TercieI]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 May 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

that'd be great except 99% of players aren't "good" players who can do well in any chassis. And yet some of those bad players play above their weight in what is considered "bad chassis".

For Jimi Hendrix or Prince playing multiple instruments seemed easy. For most of humanity becoming truly good at one instrument is an accomplishment, and some people who are almost virtuoso at a one instrument sometimes outright suck at "simpler" ones.

Of course, I do feel like I just insulted musicians by comparing their accomplishments to video games.

LOL @ the last line.

Yeah, fair points, I used to be way better in some mechs than I really was. I'm just always looking for that little edge and it's not really there in the RFL. On an objective footing, it's a mediocre robot.

[GreenHell]

Alright... you made me do this. YOU MADE ME DO THIS!



After 100 games with only the -3N(s) model, I've built up a 2.00 K/D ratio with it and dealt over 40k damage. Average damage is 500 per match. It is by FAR my BEST mech.

RFL-5D - 1x ERPPC, 3x Large Laser - Swap the ERPPC for a standard PPC if it's too hot for you. This is the one GermanAI is using in the video.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b5c6d7b301bca5b
Updated build. Similar heat, but two PPC's and 2LL's instead. Mind the 90 min range.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...225a887e1c98dd2

RFL-3N - 1x Gauss Rifle, 3x Large Laser - My personal favorite.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...959eae2554bec27

RFL-3C - 1x AC/10, 2x PPC - Looks and performs surprisingly good. Fast DPS from 500 - 600m. Mind the 90m minimum though.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fa5a224ee396570

RFL-LK - 1x LBX-10, 2x Large Pulse Laser - My least favorite...
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4d86fc893b16895
Slowest twist speed (no quirks) keeps this one as the "worst" model, but I find that it still performs quite well. The LBX might spread damage a lot, but you can still pump out 600+ damage per match at 300 - 400m range.

Quick edit before I forget. Don't build these things to be "symetrical". Just don't do it! Build them one sided, and poke people to death. It works so well it's scary...

Edited by GreenHell, 07 May 2016 - 03:25 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

DAYLEET, on 07 May 2016 - 10:33 AM, said:

Im in the pug queue, anyone who runs to get range doom his team. Sure he might mop the floor once in a while but i wouldnt try true sniping outside of CW or without guild mate to defend myself when a single light comes to end your party.

Your only perk is that you are going to get ignored like most light/meds sporting 2 ppcs. Lights and Meds can position themselves a lot better without removing an important heavy slot.


Im out of my element here anyways as i dont do true sniping. I cringe when i get one on my team but they rarely have ppcs. At least ppcs can be good for the team.

Single Light comes to meet 6 MedLas backed by 18 DHS on a 'Mech that has more armor than he does and can turn more than fast enough to keep up with his maneuvers.

It's not really a sniper 'Mech, that would be ERLL. It's a long range (note, not extreme range) DPS 'Mech. I only bring up the speed+range thing because if I have to engage a target that can out-DPS me with ACs, then I'm going to hold him out at a range where those ACs are harder to consistently aim than my PPCs are while, simultaneously, minimizing my exposure. It's all about negating his output.

Also, I have run 2xERLL+2xAC/2 on the RFL-3N. It actually did quite well, putting heads down from 800+ meters. I just find the mid-range dakka on the 3N with AC/5 more entertaining.

Finally, enemies can ignore my 2xcERPPC Shadow Cat at their own peril.