33 replies to this topic

[Lord0fHats]

Agreed. Would really like to see the CERLL become less blarg. I'd keep the range nerf (if you refer to the nerf introduced in the December 1st patch). I really thing the biggest problem the game balance had prior to that nerf was an overwhelming Clan range advantage. At this point the damage parity is much better between range and beam duration (though would benefit I think from other improvements suggested by Scarlet).

[Onimusha shin]

Ace Selin, on 08 May 2016 - 05:47 PM, said:

Make IS XL = Clan XL and structure quirks could go.

It's not that simple Ace. Even on the IS side alone, there is inherent imbalance between ballistic boats and laser vomit boats. The ridiculously short laser burns are basically throwing the balance off the scale. The only thing that can beat an IS laser vomit boat running nearly half-second burns are SRM boats and they have to sacrifice range in order to get in close enough to beat them. Even then, that only works well in a 1v1 scenario.

Ballistic boats can only annoy and out-dps most other IS laser boats but they can't beat a laser boat that can burn 40-50pts of damage in half a second into their STs and twist away. The IS laser boat mitigates damage to its own STs too easily by using shield arms. This discussion shouldn't even be about Clan vs IS anymore.

[smokefield]

my personal opinion is that quirks add diversity. all mechs should have some unique quirks. but a better system must be found. I have proposed in the past but obviously overlooked in these forums a system that will allow the player to choose the quirks, something similar with the pilot skill tree we have, with unlockable quirks, not permanent and auto excluding. That means you have to pick from 2 or more quirks just one. the others you lose. then you go that tree and specilize your mech for something. If you want to change it later then you need to start all over. (or maybe just retain some basic quirks). this will add diversity and maybe will make some mechs viable again. also it will be interesting to see what builds ppl wioll come up too and make the game more interesting to play. we can even replace the pilot skill tree with something similar..so one can unlock sniper abilities and another for brawling...

so lets say for ex we take the 4g

you could have a ballistic 10% cooldown and a laser 15% range as tier 1. you choose ballistic. it unlocks tier 2 where you have ballistic specific quirks : 15 % ac20 speed or 15% gauss cooldown. you choose gauss cooldown. it unlocks tier 3 that has : 25% speed/reverse speed or +10 structure in the side torso and 12 in CT. ...and so on.

the idea is to allow players to choose some quirks over others and allow us to come up with interesting specialized builds. my example is the simplest one with only 2 choices..but you can go more in depth with an choices trees that starts with a generic one like ballistic or lasers and goes down to quirks for specific weapons like uac5/ac10/ac2/ ml/mpl/lpl/erll. in the end we could have a 4g that is specialized hard on uac5 and another that snipes you with erll.

[Karl Streiger]

smokefield, on 08 May 2016 - 10:06 PM, said:

the idea is to allow players to choose some quirks over others and allow us to come up with interesting specialized builds. my example is the simplest one with only 2 choices..but you can go more in depth with an choices trees that starts with a generic one like ballistic or lasers and goes down to quirks for specific weapons like uac5/ac10/ac2/ ml/mpl/lpl/erll. in the end we could have a 4g that is specialized hard on uac5 and another that snipes you with erll.

The issue with picking the quirks is you can take several spoons of vanilla and create a mech with good hp layout location and 3d model - and add superb quirks on it.
Hey I don't say it couldn't work, but you need lemons to make Lemon Vanilla Curd. This is the weak spot of the current quirks - no lemons.


Another issue - each Mech has his individual quirk set. This is something i can't understand. When you create a biplane it doesn't matter what weapons or engine you put into it - it will never become a jet stealth bomber

Edited by Karl Streiger, 08 May 2016 - 10:49 PM.

[Lily from animove]

Mcgral18, on 07 May 2016 - 02:59 PM, said:

The number isn't an issue if they aren't too high

Singular, high, quirks can be just as bad. That 50% cooldown, or 2x firepower?
Add 17% from FF and the module, that becomes 67%, or 3x firepower


I still don't know if PGI intended that to happen, or was just a happy accident.

That also ties into how not all quirks are equal: MG range, the better part of useless because of the CoF or PPC range with velocity being low, VS Laser range being hitscan where you can hit from max (or 3x max) without any issue


There are mechs with all of the best quirks: Range, Structure, Heat and Duration, which happen to be very powerful.
Things like the Black Knight, which has HIGH values in ALL of the above. 10% range (maximum), over 10 to every torso (not low, and while not high, on the higher end of current quirks), and 10% less heat (one of the more powerful quirks out there, which BAD mechs often don't get)

Now, the BK was TERRIBLE at launch, and needed SOME quirks...but FOUR varieties of the best quirks in the game? It didn't need that much. It has poor weapon mounts, but has a large amount of them, with a large engine cap.

on top the HP quirks on this mechs are totally over the board, CT LT AND RT, just slap a STD on it and this thing tanks better than 100t assaults. And given that this mech doesn't even have bad hitboxes, this feels totally wrong. Then take a dragon, the dragon has just 8structure quriks more 17 vs 24. but REAL sh*tty hitboxes. hows that justified? Hows that comparison even logic?

these things really make the game hard to enjoy, because hat imbalances more than it balances.

Edited by Lily from animove, 09 May 2016 - 12:03 AM.

[kapusta11]

I just don't know what community want to achieve with all those aimless complaints like "quirks are bad" or "balance is crаp because of quirks" or "laser duration is too short". If PGI ever listen to you you'll end up with a game where lasers are useless for at least 2 years.

If you want IS LPLs to not be affected by quirks and laser duration quirk removed ask exactly for that.

If you think that structure quirks on particular mech are too high specify the exact amount of structure said mech should have.

If you think that clan lasers max range nerf was not necessary just ****ing say it.

[Lily from animove]

kapusta11, on 09 May 2016 - 12:57 AM, said:

I just don't know what community want to achieve with all those aimless complaints like "quirks are bad" or "balance is crаp because of quirks" or "laser duration is too short". If PGI ever listen to you you'll end up with a game where lasers are useless for at least 2 years.

If you want IS LPLs to not be affected by quirks and laser duration quirk removed ask exactly for that.

If you think that structure quirks on particular mech are too high specify the exact amount of structure said mech should have.

If you think that clan lasers max range nerf was not necessary just ****ing say it.

this is hard to discuss because it differs per chassis, and with the way PGI combinses many things its even harder. Like the Black knight. too much of evertyhing, yould receive HP, but no wepaon quirks, could have received no HP quirks but therefore weapon quirks. its a matter of the entire package and REALLY hard to tell what exactly. Also makes not much sense atm when PGI is on the rescale train, because this will influence a lot how much HP quirks are needed.

[dervishx5]

HE LINKED REDDIT, BAN HIM!

[Metus regem]

The best use of quirks we've seen in the last two announced mechs, the passive team boosting sensor quirks on the Cyclops and the glow effect for the Night Gyr, that is how quirks should be used, in support of Mech lore. Durability side of things, the Thunderbolt should be tanky, it has lore that calls it out as being extreamly rugged, I'd also see it given a quirks for its large laser; a quirks that shorttens duration and cool down, to mimic the Lore supported powerful LLas.

[PhoenixFire55]

Implement quirks into mech mastery process and make a skill tree. I.e. I can choose which way to go with quirks: duraton, RoF, structure buffs, agility buffs, but can't have them all.

Still, one thing people seem to fail to understand time and again ... PGI did not make quirks to balance things. PGI made quirks to make mechs that were trash suddenly OP in order to sell them. Now they change quirks every couple months or so to make different mechs better and people spend spend spend ... Dragon is a great example. Decent mech in CB, complete trash afterwards, 50% RoF AC5 monster after it got first quirks, complete trash after they got changed. Now ask yourself how many people actually bought a Dragon (or rather 3 Dragons in order to master one) only because of quirks it had.

[cazidin]

Onimusha shin, on 08 May 2016 - 09:09 PM, said:

It's not that simple Ace. Even on the IS side alone, there is inherent imbalance between ballistic boats and laser vomit boats. The ridiculously short laser burns are basically throwing the balance off the scale. The only thing that can beat an IS laser vomit boat running nearly half-second burns are SRM boats and they have to sacrifice range in order to get in close enough to beat them. Even then, that only works well in a 1v1 scenario.

Ballistic boats can only annoy and out-dps most other IS laser boats but they can't beat a laser boat that can burn 40-50pts of damage in half a second into their STs and twist away. The IS laser boat mitigates damage to its own STs too easily by using shield arms. This discussion shouldn't even be about Clan vs IS anymore.

Buff Ballistic velocity and maybe increase ammo per ton and adjust LBX a little more then?

[Metus regem]

PhoenixFire55, on 09 May 2016 - 05:56 AM, said:

Implement quirks into mech mastery process and make a skill tree. I.e. I can choose which way to go with quirks: duraton, RoF, structure buffs, agility buffs, but can't have them all.

Still, one thing people seem to fail to understand time and again ... PGI did not make quirks to balance things. PGI made quirks to make mechs that were trash suddenly OP in order to sell them. Now they change quirks every couple months or so to make different mechs better and people spend spend spend ... Dragon is a great example. Decent mech in CB, complete trash afterwards, 50% RoF AC5 monster after it got first quirks, complete trash after they got changed. Now ask yourself how many people actually bought a Dragon (or rather 3 Dragons in order to master one) only because of quirks it had.

I bought Dragons because they are actually fun to pilot....

[PhoenixFire55]

Metus regem, on 09 May 2016 - 10:48 AM, said:

I bought Dragons because they are actually fun to pilot....

Good for you. Your point is?

[LordKnightFandragon]

Deathlike, on 08 May 2016 - 05:34 PM, said:

Maybe someday @ PGI, someone will have a clue.

That day isn't soon™.

Yeah, the day PGI makes a note saying Paul and Russ are retiring and they have sold PGI over to HBS, then we might see a nice BT FPS.