35 replies to this topic

[Dale Grible]

Hi! Lookin to read some more battletech books. Ive read gray death trilogy, warrior trilogy, blood of kerensky, and jade phoenix tril.

Problem i have though is its always wasp, crusader, locust, phoenix hawk yada yada unseen now seen mechs with warhammer, orion, and stalker getting honorable mentions but no real combat.

So, question is which books have atlas, stalker, raven, catapault that are kinda written like robert thurston's jade phoenix tril? Seems like people like L. Coleman too.

Jade phoen had the iconic clan mechs like t-wlf, summoner, warhawk, sadder....was a great read. Just lookin for IS icons. Plz help

[El Bandito]

Try "Illusions of Victory", by Loren L. Coleman. It is set in Solaris, and plenty of non-unseen IS mechs are featured, though many are of 3060 timeline. "Heir to the Dragon" is a decent look at Draconis Combine politics, and has a lot of contemporary IS mechs.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 May 2016 - 06:39 AM.

[Alan Davion]

El Bandito, on 08 May 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:

Try "Illusions of Victory", by Loren L. Coleman. It is set in Solaris, and plenty of non-unseen IS mechs are featured, though many are of 3060 timeline. "Heir to the Dragon" is a decent look at Draconis Combine politics, and has a lot of contemporary IS mechs.

Never heard of Illusions of Victory, but Heir to the Dragon I wholeheartedly agree with. Dale, if you want to see the Orion in combat, Heir to the Dragon is the book for you. The in-depth look into House Kurita's politics is great too.

[Xocoyol Zaraoul]

El Bandito, on 08 May 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:

Try "Illusions of Victory", by Loren L. Coleman. It is set in Solaris, and plenty of non-unseen IS mechs are featured, though many are of 3060 timeline. "Heir to the Dragon" is a decent look at Draconis Combine politics, and has a lot of contemporary IS mechs.

Coleman is probably the best B-Tech author, he's the reason I fell in love with House Liao, with Threads of Ambition and Killing Fields (Capellan Solution pair of books). Stackpole may be the classic go-to, but Coleman's novels just felt more "real" when seeing three-dimensional characters, with more Fiat applied to factions and less Fiat applied to characters being stupidly lucky.

Illusions of Victory is a pretty solid novel set in Solaris, and I do highly recommend reading Initiation to War (it even has a Raven in it) to see life from the perspective of common mechwarrior soldiers, not princes or heros.

If you want something completely different and to see life in the eyes of a Ghost Bear Elemental, read Test of Vengeance.

Edited by Xocoyol Zaraoul, 08 May 2016 - 08:47 AM.

[dervishx5]

The best authors are Robert Charette, Victor Milan, and Robert Thurston. In their books the story is usually unique and not the same tripe of MOLTEN SLAG, GOLDEN FIRE, and AZURE BEAMS that Stackpole, Pardoe, Coleman, etc spew out all the time. That's not to say those guys aren't capable of writing good stories (Exodus Road and Threads of Ambition come to mind), but they're generally very similar in tone and verbiage is up the wazoo. Plus Pardoe never bought a TRO past 3055.

The three I initially mentioned pretty much always break out of the category of pulp fiction writers and write genuine science fiction because they're good at it. In their stories Mechs are just a means to an end; it's the characters you end up caring about.

Edited by dervishx5, 08 May 2016 - 09:27 AM.

[Dale Grible]

Hey guys....thx for the suggestions. If anybody has anymore, please keep up the input. Gonna order prob 5-6 books on amazon

[orcrist86]

Theres a whole series of books related to the cappelan reunification war of 3059? that feature all sorts of mechs. Really once you get past the 3050's all sorts of mechs pop up,

[Xocoyol Zaraoul]

orcrist86, on 08 May 2016 - 02:03 PM, said:

Theres a whole series of books related to the cappelan reunification war of 3059? that feature all sorts of mechs. Really once you get past the 3050's all sorts of mechs pop up,

The Capellan Solution series: Threads of Ambition, Killing Fields.

Binding Force is also a good precursor to that though.

[Bishop Steiner]

dervishx5, on 08 May 2016 - 09:22 AM, said:

Plus Pardoe never bought a TRO past 3055.

well in all fairness, they weren't exactly all the inspiring after 3055 anyhow. Yeah I know people like their 3058 Assaults, but since they are all pretty much just different shades of copypasta Gauss Monsters, color me unimpressed.

And Victor Milan might have had a different tone, but it was so penny dreadful/comic book silly, that it's hard to recommend except maybe to Tarantino fans.

Wolves on the Border, Heir to the Dragon and the Gray Death Trilogy are IMO the best overall books in the CBT era line of novels. Warrior Trilogy and Bllod of Kerensky have their moments but mostly are important because they are the backbone of the game universe. But I do prefer the one shots and stuff, probably overall, even stuff like Double Blind for the different perspective given. There are only a handful, like Far Country, DRT and Ideal War that I consider outright bad. And Ideal War is not a horrible concept but the writing is very MEH.

[Xocoyol Zaraoul]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 May 2016 - 02:40 PM, said:

well in all fairness, they weren't exactly all the inspiring after 3055 anyhow. Yeah I know people like their 3058 Assaults, but since they are all pretty much just different shades of copypasta Gauss Monsters, color me unimpressed.

I personally found 3060 to have rather colorful mechs, though 3058 were all terribly "Meta" and far too perfect.

dervishx5, on 08 May 2016 - 09:22 AM, said:

The best authors are Robert Charette, Victor Milan, and Robert Thurston. In their books the story is usually unique and not the same tripe of MOLTEN SLAG, GOLDEN FIRE, and AZURE BEAMS that Stackpole, Pardoe, Coleman, etc spew out all the time. That's not to say those guys aren't capable of writing good stories (Exodus Road and Threads of Ambition come to mind), but they're generally very similar in tone and verbiage is up the wazoo.

The book set in Solaris, Illusions of Victory, actually makes a rather large and humorous dig at himself (the author) when a Solaris radio/holonet announcer mentions his extensive cheatsheet of ways to describe weapon fire, such as 29 different ways to say "A PPC hits a target."

Edited by Xocoyol Zaraoul, 08 May 2016 - 02:43 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Xocoyol Zaraoul, on 08 May 2016 - 02:38 PM, said:

The Capellan Solution series: Threads of Ambition, Killing Fields.

Binding Force is also a good precursor to that though.

Dagger Point was kind of interesting. Wish they had done more with the Light Horse and other units. A series of Novel from the Big Macs perspective would have been interesting, kind of like how Dragonlance had novels chronicling most of their villains and heroes? Seeing Wilsons Hussars, Wacos Rangers and others get novels chronicling their most famous chapters would be great.

But what I would realyl covet is a trilogy chronicling the Fall of the Star League/Beginning of the First Succession War, told from the perspective of the Eridani Light Horse.

[Xocoyol Zaraoul]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 May 2016 - 02:44 PM, said:

But what I would realyl covet is a trilogy chronicling the Fall of the Star League/Beginning of the First Succession War, told from the perspective of the Eridani Light Horse.

Oh, I would adore a series on the golden age of the star league, and the end of it.

I grew up reading all of the old-school dragonlance novels and it's kinda funny to now think that it's now considered "Ancient History" all of the heroes I knew so well like Flint, or even further back Huma.

Edited by Xocoyol Zaraoul, 08 May 2016 - 02:46 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Xocoyol Zaraoul, on 08 May 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

I personally found 3060 to have rather colorful mechs, though 3058 were all terribly "Meta" and far too perfect.




The book set in Solaris, Illusions of Victory, actually makes a rather large and humorous dig at himself (the author) when a Solaris radio/holonet announcer mentions his extensive cheatsheet of ways to describe weapon fire, such as 29 different ways to say "A PPC hits a target."

Good point.... I think the art styles partly turned me off, too, with weird bulbous omnimechs that could in way hay swap omni compatible pods, etc.

As bad as the original base artwork in the 3055 TRO was, I actually find I really liek a lot of the design elements, and the actual mechs have a ton of character. And you nailed it on TRO 3058. CopyPasta MetaPuke Perfection. I don't mind a few fantastic out the door chassis, here and there, but to me TRO 3058 had all the flavor and excitement of the Resistance 2 Pack, lol.

[Archangel.84]

I actually like Far Country - though it's been years since I read it - but it should be in its own category since it's a sci-fi novel guest-starring Battletech elements. Aside from 4 mechs there's really no connection to the Battletech universe.

I'm going to add to the Capellan Solution suggestions. Even considering the outcome as a fan of St. Ives, I thought they were very good.

dervishx5, on 08 May 2016 - 09:22 AM, said:

The best authors are Robert Charette, Victor Milan, and Robert Thurston. In their books the story is usually unique and not the same tripe of MOLTEN SLAG, GOLDEN FIRE, and AZURE BEAMS that Stackpole, Pardoe, Coleman, etc spew out all the time. That's not to say those guys aren't capable of writing good stories (Exodus Road and Threads of Ambition come to mind), but they're generally very similar in tone and verbiage is up the wazoo. Plus Pardoe never bought a TRO past 3055.

The three I initially mentioned pretty much always break out of the category of pulp fiction writers and write genuine science fiction because they're good at it. In their stories Mechs are just a means to an end; it's the characters you end up caring about.

Charette and Milan for sure stand out, whether you like them or not (I tend to myself). But Thurston? I don't know why you'd separate him from Stackpole or Pardoe to be honest, and I don't think he's as good as Coleman. As I recall he's pretty much just the Jade Falcon lens on the 'verse in the way that Stackpole is the "backbone" author for that time period.

[Bishop Steiner]

Archangel.84, on 08 May 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

I actually like Far Country - though it's been years since I read it - but it should be in its own category since it's a sci-fi novel guest-starring Battletech elements. Aside from 4 mechs there's really no connection to the Battletech universe.

I'm going to add to the Capellan Solution suggestions. Even considering the outcome as a fan of St. Ives, I thought they were very good.



Charette and Milan for sure stand out, whether you like them or not (I tend to myself). But Thurston? I don't know why you'd separate him from Stackpole or Pardoe to be honest, and I don't think he's as good as Coleman. As I recall he's pretty much just the Jade Falcon lens on the 'verse in the way that Stackpole is the "backbone" author for that time period.

Good point with Far Country. Novel itself isn't bad, it's just not Battletech.

And TBH, I find Thurston and the Jade Phoenix trilogy as dry boring and soulless as I find the Clans in General. So I guess it was a good match? But a dull read.

I think the conclusion of the Capellan Solution Novels probably is what really sold them. The Davion/Steiner "Team Murica Go WIN!" good guys didn't pull of the last second improbably victory. They were interesting and funny on their own at times, (Hello Col Nintendo!) but the conclusion sealed the deal.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 08 May 2016 - 02:52 PM.

[Xocoyol Zaraoul]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 May 2016 - 02:46 PM, said:

Good point.... I think the art styles partly turned me off, too, with weird bulbous omnimechs that could in way hay swap omni compatible pods, etc.

As bad as the original base artwork in the 3055 TRO was, I actually find I really liek a lot of the design elements, and the actual mechs have a ton of character.  And you nailed it on TRO 3058.  CopyPasta MetaPuke Perfection.  I don't mind a few fantastic out the door chassis, here and there, but to me TRO 3058 had all the flavor and excitement of the Resistance 2 Pack, lol.

I agree completely on that, 3055 had a lot of flaws but that lent it flavor, while the TR1 wraith for example is woefully inefficient I think it very well may be one of my top ten favorite Tech 2 mechs of all time, as for 3058 only the Emperor or the Excalibur really stood out to me, both of which thankfully broke free of the perfectly-balanced-laser-vomit-DHS-Steiner-Supremacy. Nothing wrong with beating someone's face in with a Pillager, but I find it's a lot more fun trying to get the cumbersome Yu Huang or the fragile Grim Reaper to do that instead...

I'll take a Helios anyday over the picture-perfect Cestus.

Archangel.84, on 08 May 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

I actually like Far Country - though it's been years since I read it - but it should be in its own category since it's a sci-fi novel guest-starring Battletech elements. Aside from 4 mechs there's really no connection to the Battletech universe.

That book sadly does get a large amount of hate for being such a solid novel, I agree it isn't terribly Battletech and iirc was Retconned out of existence, canon wise, but it is still a rather interesting read.

Edited by Xocoyol Zaraoul, 08 May 2016 - 02:59 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Xocoyol Zaraoul, on 08 May 2016 - 02:57 PM, said:

I agree completely on that, 3055 had a lot of flaws but that lent it flavor, while the TR1 wraith for example is woefully inefficient I think it very well may be one of my top ten favorite Tech 2 mechs of all time, as for 3058 only the Emperor or the Excalibur really stood out to me, both of which thankfully broke free of the perfectly-balanced-laser-vomit-DHS-Steiner-Supremacy. Nothing wrong with beating someone's face in with a Pillager, but I find it's a lot more fun trying to get the cumbersome Yu Huang or the fragile Grim Reaper to do that instead...

I'll take a Helios anyday over the picture-perfect Cestus.


That book sadly does get a large amount of hate for being such a solid novel, I agree it isn't terribly Battletech and iirc was Retconned out of existence, canon wise, but it is still a rather interesting read.

"it does meet the current criteria for Canon and BattleTech Line Developer Herbert A. Beas has confirmed its canonicity, with the caveat that the authors and developers deliberately ignore the Tetatae and shall not revisit them. The impact on the BattleTech universe is minor, given that the Tetatae only (theoretically) exist in a place that has no connections to the known universe whatsoever."

So...canon... but like an annoying relative, lets forget about it and move on....... lol.

As for TRO 3055, I have unreasonable love for most of the designs.

Fireball, Jackal, Venom, Hollander, Wraith, Komodo, Snake, Daikyu, Bandersnatch, Falconer, Gunslinger and Cerberus are all faves of mine. The flawed choices gave that rushed, built with barely understood tech feel. And I love pretty much all the Clan Designs aside from the Omnis in it.

Plus it has the Sabutai C omnifighter, which became the backbone of my units Aerospace fleet after operation bulldog.


(Sabutais and Xerxes, to the point of making their own IS tech knockoff of the Xerxes) supplementing the Slayers and Ironsides that made up the bulk of my units aerospace armada.

[Archangel.84]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 May 2016 - 02:50 PM, said:

I think the conclusion of the Capellan Solution Novels probably is what really sold them. The Davion/Steiner "Team Murica Go WIN!" good guys didn't pull of the last second improbably victory. They were interesting and funny on their own at times, (Hello Col Nintendo!) but the conclusion sealed the deal.

It also really sold me on Sun-Tzu Liao as an interesting character in his own right. Manipulative and absolutely a **** when he had to be, but dedicated to the Confederation and a 'good guy' in his own way. Even if he was focused on using the new Star League as a means to his end and conquering a faction I'd been a fan of since I got into the universe, I couldn't help but admire him and somewhat root for him.

Much more interesting than Romano or Max's pants-on-head villainy.

[Bishop Steiner]

Archangel.84, on 08 May 2016 - 03:15 PM, said:

It also really sold me on Sun-Tzu Liao as an interesting character in his own right. Manipulative and absolutely a **** when he had to be, but dedicated to the Confederation and a 'good guy' in his own way. Even if he was focused on using the new Star League as a means to his end and conquering a faction I'd been a fan of since I got into the universe, I couldn't help but admire him and somewhat root for him.

Much more interesting than Romano or Max's pants-on-head villainy.

Well, it was the mainstream novels that really douched Sun Tzu up. But yeah, for the CC citizens, he really was a savior, one could say. St Ives, might disagree, but then St Ives was a joke and illusion just like Tikonov, and if Justin Allard hadn't been sleeping with Candace, Davion would have snapped it up jsut like he did Tikonov.

In Many Ways, Sun Tzu was just a Hanse Davion who had to plan from a potion of weakness, instead of strength. Both were absolutely without remorse in achieving their vision. And It wasn't Sun Tzu that ignited a war on his own wedding that killed millions to assuage his anger over Max planting a double (yes, he destroyed the guys mind... but even wiping one guys mind is a pretty poor justification for the 4th Succession War..... end of the day, it was just a mental justification for another empire builder chasing manifest destiny)

[Alan Davion]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 May 2016 - 02:44 PM, said:

Dagger Point was kind of interesting. Wish they had done more with the Light Horse and other units. A series of Novel from the Big Macs perspective would have been interesting, kind of like how Dragonlance had novels chronicling most of their villains and heroes? Seeing Wilsons Hussars, Wacos Rangers and others get novels chronicling their most famous chapters would be great.

But what I would realyl covet is a trilogy chronicling the Fall of the Star League/Beginning of the First Succession War, told from the perspective of the Eridani Light Horse.

I'm not sure about the ELH, but have you read "Star Lord" at all? Pretty sure that chronicles part of the Fall of the Star League... Been at least ten years since I read that one though, so don't quote me on that.