87 replies to this topic

[Alan Davion]

Roadkill, on 10 May 2016 - 12:03 PM, said:

+1. Agreed.

That said, this also feels like one of those things that I can probably ignore (like CW/FP/whatever it's called this week). In my opinion it's a waste of development resources, but I can (probably) just ignore it in game and it won't affect me.

True, the side effects you talk about will affect me, but there are side effects to CW/FP that also affect me and I just ignore them. I suspect that in the long run I'll be able to ignore the side effects of crates also.

Basically, I suspect that they'll be really popular for a short while, then people will realize that they're not worth the effort and start ignoring them. People figured out really quickly that the side targets in Domination are pointless, after all. They'll figure this out, too.

It's not an opinion that this is wasted development time.

It's a fact.

For however long they've been working on this ridiculous thing, they might have had someone instead try and look over the LBX ammo switching code. That would have been a much better use of their far too limited resources than some RNG box mechanic that has no place in an FPS game to begin with.

[Deathlike]

Alan Davion, on 10 May 2016 - 12:13 PM, said:

It's not an opinion that this is wasted development time.

It's a fact.

For however long they've been working on this ridiculous thing, they might have had someone instead try and look over the LBX ammo switching code. That would have been a much better use of their far too limited resources than some RNG box mechanic that has no place in an FPS game to begin with.

This is already Lostech.

[Pjwned]

The only things I want to see from this are:

-Crates not making match quality go down the drain as players hunt around wildly for them instead of playing properly
-No ridiculous pay2win BS from opening crates with keys

That's it. PGI already confirmed the crates can be sold off for c-bills so at least they're not worthless without spending MC, which is fine even if I don't care much for the idea of crates but it's also easy enough to not screw the whole idea up as long as PGI isn't incredibly stupid.

[Metus regem]

I'm fine with the crates, I think it's a little silly, but I'm okay with it. What they need is a black market or exchange where you could buy keys for MC and put them up for c-bills, or hell sell the crates on the market to other players, rather than feeding the vendors for what will likely be a joke amount of c-bills...

[Alan Davion]

Deathlike, on 10 May 2016 - 12:30 PM, said:

This is already Lostech.

Hey, better someone tries to reactivate lostech than this crate BS, am I right?

[Sjorpha]

Scout Derek, on 10 May 2016 - 07:03 AM, said:

But let's get down to it, needs some reworking. I looked around the threads here a bit and see some alright and good reworks, so here's my short fix:

• Both teams should have a crate that they and they only can collect, per example Blue team gets a crate they can collect, and Red Team gets a crate they can collect.
  
• Even if the crate is not found, but won by the team, they still get a bonus crate awarded to a random person on the team.
  
• Sometimes when a crate is found, a fragment or a whole key can be found. 3 Fragments of a key would equal a whole key. (Chance per say could be 15%)
  
• Combining a Key Costs 1 Million C-Bills.

Look Derek, the basic problem with crates is having players spend time on finding crates instead of playing towards the win.

You can't fix that problem as long as there are crates in the match that you need to spend time on finding and collecting.

Here's a proper fix: Make the supply caches random rewards that you sometimes get after a match, don't put them in the match itself.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Can we have glowing green health boxes, and purple shells that blow up the highest-scoring member of the opposite team? Those would be awesome things to find in-match!

Seriously, though, we can always just ask those lone teammates who wander off if they are loot hunting. If they say Yes then tell them to get back in the fight or they will be reported for non-participation.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 10 May 2016 - 03:02 PM.

[Alex Morgaine]

But Snord's Irregulars RP man! The RP!

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Scout Derek, on 10 May 2016 - 07:03 AM, said:

That's my opinion of fixing the Crates. Again, don't hop on the hate bandwagon; you just show and alienate PGI from even listening or even deciding to care about your opinions. If anything, try to be respectful for once, it might actually get you places in the long run.

Listen... PGI alienates itself by consistently coming up with half-assed convoluted ideas. They create their own problems, over, and over, and over again with no foresight to their actions, and in the meantime they are wasting their player base's valuable time and money.

I mean, if all people care about with MW:O is playing pokemon and dress up with their mechadolls... then there's nothing to worry about. But for those who care about actually playing a decent game with dedicated and competent upper management developers... well they keep crapping the bed where that's concerned. Anyone who has ever played a solo/group pug drop knows this is a bad idea that would ruin team effort and focus and anyone who has ever played more than one game in their lifetime knows there is better ways than this to put a carrot on a stick for players.

All I want to know is if developers have ever played anything else, like DOTA2, CS:GO, Dirty Bomb just as a few off the top of my head that has a RNG reward system, and who the hell thought that taking away from the core gameplay fundamentals was a good idea, because they honestly should be fired... into space... towards the sun.

Alan Davion, on 10 May 2016 - 12:13 PM, said:

It's not an opinion that this is wasted development time.

It's a fact.

For however long they've been working on this ridiculous thing, they might have had someone instead try and look over the LBX ammo switching code. That would have been a much better use of their far too limited resources than some RNG box mechanic that has no place in an FPS game to begin with.

So goddamned true. It's like they are just trying to create very bad problems that they can take months to "fix" so they can justify their own paychecks. Pretty smart, business model, actually. Present the illusion you're making progress by constantly creating your own problems without any actual development. Well played...

Edited by lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol, 10 May 2016 - 03:55 PM.

[m]

Scout Derek, on 10 May 2016 - 07:03 AM, said:

Look, I like PGI for what it's done; I've bought their products, I've done giveaways for the community, and I've even became a Moderator because I find this place to be of a sorts, a home away from home.

But this? Crates? I'll have to say:

There's barely any substantial information on these things. Not only that, but PGI should have at least said something along the lines of WIP for the thing. Because now we have everyone hopping onto the hate bandwagon and giving PGI the middle finger for revealing something that's completely new and not what some expected.

Back to my point, PGI should at least provided some more background info on it, hell, even reworked the Mechanics of it.

Already I saw problems; Crate was to be spawned randomly on map. No bueno. When match is over crate is randomly given to a player, plus another if team won. Bueno.

Why is the second sentence good?

Well let's think about it; When someone sees something they want, and it's the only or last thing left, everybody fights over it. Could you imagine the anger, rage, and problems that would cause if people fought over it? Not only do you have to be careful of greedy teammates, but you also have a enemy team who might also be closing in on it.

But let's get down to it, needs some reworking. I looked around the threads here a bit and see some alright and good reworks, so here's my short fix:

• Both teams should have a crate that they and they only can collect, per example Blue team gets a crate they can collect, and Red Team gets a crate they can collect.
  
• Even if the crate is not found, but won by the team, they still get a bonus crate awarded to a random person on the team.
  
• Sometimes when a crate is found, a fragment or a whole key can be found. 3 Fragments of a key would equal a whole key. (Chance per say could be 15%)
  
• Combining a Key Costs 1 Million C-Bills.

That's my opinion of fixing the Crates. Again, don't hop on the hate bandwagon; you just show and alienate PGI from even listening or even deciding to care about your opinions. If anything, try to be respectful for once, it might actually get you places in the long run.

I remember in the tv show Crates were a big deal. Pirates were caught smuggling crates. The only problem with crates is that what is someone to do with all the extra stuff if they are not being forced to use it. If there was a Repair and Rearm mechanic, or even a Prototypes mechanic with unique weaponry, we could really see a need for crates. As of now I kind of just see it as clutter if there is no primary need.

Also if crates were objective based that would be interesting.

[Alan Davion]

lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol, on 10 May 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

Listen... PGI alienates itself by consistently coming up with half-assed convoluted ideas. They create their own problems, over, and over, and over again with no foresight to their actions, and in the meantime they are wasting their player base's valuable time and money.

I mean, if all people care about with MW:O is playing pokemon and dress up with their mechadolls... then there's nothing to worry about. But for those who care about actually playing a decent game with dedicated and competent upper management developers... well they keep crapping the bed where that's concerned. Anyone who has ever played a solo/group pug drop knows this is a bad idea that would ruin team effort and focus and anyone who has ever played more than one game in their lifetime knows there is better ways than this to put a carrot on a stick for players.

All I want to know is if developers have ever played anything else, like DOTA2, CS:GO, Dirty Bomb just as a few off the top of my head that has a RNG reward system, and who the hell thought that taking away from the core gameplay fundamentals was a good idea, because they honestly should be fired... into space... towards the sun.

So goddamned true. It's like they are just trying to create very bad problems that they can take months to "fix" so they can justify their own paychecks. Pretty smart, business model, actually. Present the illusion you're making progress by constantly creating your own problems without any actual development. Well played...

PGI has listened to the community in the past, when it was an issue that pretty much broke the whole damn game. The pop-tart/jump-sniper meta a few years ago comes to mind. I wasn't there for that, thank god, but I've seen literal gobs of potential throughout MWO in the mechs and the game modes, and plenty of good ideas from the community to capitalize on that potential, yet they don't do crap when those ideas come up.

Kanajashi suggested this power draw mechanic... What... 2 years ago now I think? And they're JUST NOW getting around to trying to implement that?

If they'd just stuck to table top values for the heat system, we wouldn't have to deal with the current steaming pile of filth we have now.

The crate system is just the latest symptom of it all.

Someone mentioned a crate system in CoD and Battlefield, the thing is that's not part of the actual game, that's part of their leveling system. You get special crates for leveling up, and you get specific crates for accruing certain numbers of kills with your weapons.

Now THAT kind of crate system would work absolutely fine for MWO. Get a certain number of kills or damage done with a certain mech, get a crate with some items to make that mech better.

NOT a system that requires people to bungle around the map trying to find some hidden loot that, they may not even actually get if it operates the way I think it does based on the way I read it.

Player A finds the loot stash.

Player A's Team wins the match.

Players B and C end up with the loot.

Player A feels shafted.

Player A either says "F*** This" and uninstalls, costing PGI the chance to make money off the player, or keeps playing and goes off with another mech to find the next loot crate, only to TK the guy out of spite.

If PGI is trying to destroy the game, which it seems like it right now, this kind of crate system is exactly what they need.

[oldradagast]

lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol, on 10 May 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

So goddamned true. It's like they are just trying to create very bad problems that they can take months to "fix" so they can justify their own paychecks. Pretty smart, business model, actually. Present the illusion you're making progress by constantly creating your own problems without any actual development. Well played...

True, although they may be nearing the end of the pokemech gravy train. Beyond that point, the usual half-bake "do nothing, roll out a new mech package, and tweak an XLM file once a year" business model won't work. The time draws near when everyone will have more than enough mechs - after that, what else is there to buy?

Apparently, PGI thinks players are going to want to waste money buying lockpicks to open treasure chests that were magically scattered around the land by the Power Up Fairy before each match. The lunacy of it boggles the mind. Such mechanics have no place in this game AND won't make a dime for the developers unless they go down the path of least resistance and start cramming actual power-ups, unique weapons and items, and other crap in them. And even that path will only work short-term as the majority of the game's population leaves if it becomes focused on loot drops.

[Khobai]

the crates need hats in them

mech hats would be amazing

[Scout Derek]

oldradagast, on 10 May 2016 - 05:57 PM, said:

True, although they may be nearing the end of the pokemech gravy train. Beyond that point, the usual half-bake "do nothing, roll out a new mech package, and tweak an XLM file once a year" business model won't work. The time draws near when everyone will have more than enough mechs - after that, what else is there to buy?

Apparently, PGI thinks players are going to want to waste money buying lockpicks to open treasure chests that were magically scattered around the land by the Power Up Fairy before each match. The lunacy of it boggles the mind. Such mechanics have no place in this game AND won't make a dime for the developers unless they go down the path of least resistance and start cramming actual power-ups, unique weapons and items, and other crap in them. And even that path will only work short-term as the majority of the game's population leaves if it becomes focused on loot drops.

again, I think this all sprouts from the fact that there's a lack of context to the whole thing. I don't mean to be mean, but PGI should understand this with that whole charade long ago with the public test servers with info warfare. everybody blew up, me and a few others said to calm down, which they didn't, only after the fact that Phil made a video explaining the situation and Paul hopping on did it curve people's anger, and that was that. the same thing is happening again, but this time it has an added on function of materialising out of nowhere.

I've been talking to Tina, and on another thread you see me explaining that she said that more info is to come, but however when I told her that some of you wanted the info process to be a little quicker on it, she said she couldn't, as again, per say, it's a conceptual mechanic that's yet to actually make it's way into MWO, and that she does not want to make false promises to us.

so that leads me down to this; either the ideal might be scrapped and be replaced by something else, or that the crate loots will be refined very much from all the opinions and fixes we've been offering. in a way, we are helping them, even if you don't know it, they do read, anonymously... I can imagine one of the PGI staff reading this and taking some partially well written ideals from here. Dave does it all the time in the Academy sub-forums.

[cazidin]

Scout Derek, on 10 May 2016 - 06:14 PM, said:

again, I think this all sprouts from the fact that there's a lack of context to the whole thing. I don't mean to be mean, but PGI should understand this with that whole charade long ago with the public test servers with info warfare. everybody blew up, me and a few others said to calm down, which they didn't, only after the fact that Phil made a video explaining the situation and Paul hopping on did it curve people's anger, and that was that. the same thing is happening again, but this time it has an added on function of materialising out of nowhere.

I've been talking to Tina, and on another thread you see me explaining that she said that more info is to come, but however when I told her that some of you wanted the info process to be a little quicker on it, she said she couldn't, as again, per say, it's a conceptual mechanic that's yet to actually make it's way into MWO, and that she does not want to make false promises to us.

so that leads me down to this; either the ideal might be scrapped and be replaced by something else, or that the crate loots will be refined very much from all the opinions and fixes we've been offering. in a way, we are helping them, even if you don't know it, they do read, anonymously... I can imagine one of the PGI staff reading this and taking some partially well written ideals from here. Dave does it all the time in the Academy sub-forums.

While I agree with you that we should conduct ourselves in a more respectful manner I think that we should continue to express ourselves, how we feel about the system and what we don't like about it so PGI can take this feedback and use it to refine their system. I hope that we aren't dismissed out of hand for a few very angry and very vocal members.

That being said. I simply don't like the Supply Cache idea. If PGI would like to give us random rewards for Quick Play then why not cut out the middle man, or the middle box in this case? Maybe only have us spend MC to unlock say, a set of mech bays, a new mech or variant of one, etc. If it can't be locked to the specific items then make it locked to a rare quality cache which is atleast guaranteed to have one or more of these items - albeit, unfortunately, still at random.

I truly am opposed to any mechanic that requires us to spend money AND is subject to the Gods of RNG for so often do they disfavor my brethren that it leads to even greater strife among my humble village!

(Also. While I respect you, Derek, Tina should be vocalizing this to the public rather than a select few in private. To simply let us know that they have plans, will accept feedback and maybe make a specific thread to focus that feedback in would be of great help overall.)

[Scout Derek]

cazidin, on 10 May 2016 - 06:24 PM, said:

While I agree with you that we should conduct ourselves in a more respectful manner I think that we should continue to express ourselves, how we feel about the system and what we don't like about it so PGI can take this feedback and use it to refine their system. I hope that we aren't dismissed out of hand for a few very angry and very vocal members.

That being said. I simply don't like the Supply Cache idea. If PGI would like to give us random rewards for Quick Play then why not cut out the middle man, or the middle box in this case? Maybe only have us spend MC to unlock say, a set of mech bays, a new mech or variant of one, etc. If it can't be locked to the specific items then make it locked to a rare quality cache which is atleast guaranteed to have one or more of these items - albeit, unfortunately, still at random.

I truly am opposed to any mechanic that requires us to spend money AND is subject to the Gods of RNG for so often do they disfavor my brethren that it leads to even greater strife among my humble village!

(Also. While I respect you, Derek, Tina should be vocalizing this to the public rather than a select few in private. To simply let us know that they have plans, will accept feedback and maybe make a specific thread to focus that feedback in would be of great help overall.)

oh I understand, you do as you please, so long as people aren't really calling PGI some Vulgar names and what not;

As for your disliking of the cache supply, I think this might curve some people's hunger:




So, maybe it will disappear if enough of the community here dislikes it.

(As for Tina vocalizing this, she would, but she wants to vocalize this when there's actually enough substantial information to explain, rather than snippets that I've been doing for people here. when it comes to the bigger things, she'll come out and explain whatever it is)

[cazidin]

Scout Derek, on 10 May 2016 - 06:30 PM, said:

oh I understand, you do as you please, so long as people aren't really calling PGI some Vulgar names and what not;

As for your disliking of the cache supply, I think this might curve some people's hunger:




So, maybe it will disappear if enough of the community here dislikes it.

(As for Tina vocalizing this, she would, but she wants to vocalize this when there's actually enough substantial information to explain, rather than snippets that I've been doing for people here. when it comes to the bigger things, she'll come out and explain whatever it is)

Of course not. I will throw a few lighthearted jabs at PGI, like my constant crusade for the Command Console buff, but I understand that they're a small team with limited resources.

I appreciate that Russ is open to listen to and will watch for feedback and the supply cache, really I do and I hope that PGI can make it work in a way that is well received but that WILL be difficult and I'm not sure that they can accomplish this because of their small team and limited resources. They can, I'm just cautiously optimistic.

I don't want them to put all the time into a new mechanic only to scrap it, I want them to seriously consider if it can work well before they spend all that time on it.

(Again, fair enough, I just mean to say something to us! Even telling us that would probably quell a lot of the rage and again I appreciate you telling us but it really should of been from her.)

[krash27]

Frosty Brand, on 10 May 2016 - 03:15 PM, said:

But Snord's Irregulars RP man! The RP!

TCB

[Sjorpha]

As far as being respectful goes, the distinction should be drawn between insulting a person and lambasting an idea.

Supply crates aren't a person, I have no obligation to be respectful towards the idea of supply crates. I can call the whole idea ridiculous and stupid, because it is, and should be ok.

I will however respect PGI employees as people, I wouldn't call the person who suggested supply crates any names just because he or she made a stupid suggestion.

Upholding this basic distinction is all you need to be as harsh as you like and respectful at the same time. But moderators need to make the same distinction.

[Aresye]

Stefka Kerensky, on 10 May 2016 - 07:59 AM, said:

yea... it is very common to go in a battlefield and collect treasure chest with camo colors inside....

Because running around collecting beacons with bright lights and fancy beeps and boops is the high point of immersion, right? I guess you'd prefer to collect worthless consumables, single medium lasers, and other grab-bag like elements?

Personally, I feel if PGI is going to go along with a "loot crate" type system, they may as well make it worthwhile. I'm talking rare camo patterns, cockpit items, etc. Make an actual incentive for players to use MC to unlock them.

PGI could also hold art contests for players to create custom patterns for mechs, and stuff like that.