12 replies to this topic

[William Denton]

Hi guys,

I don't know whether this belongs here or if this came up allready but I had an idea how it might be able to balance the clans even though they got the better equipment etc.

As far as I understood it the Clans always fight with honour and use their bidding system to find the smallest force possible to achive a objective. That being said my solution would attempt to bring at least the code of honour into the game:
Every clanner has to mark a taget as soon as he/she can see the enemy. Now this clanner can only damage his marked target with the normal power of his weapons. Everyone else would only get half (?) damage if attacked by said clanner. And of course every enemy can only be marked once. If you don't mark an enemy you only do half (or less ?) damage to everyone.
This might lead to IS mech running away from the clanner who marked them but I think it would definitely help getting the clanners into trouble if the IS side starts playing dirty.

In my opinion the bidding-system should mean that it would be only 8-10 Clanners against 12 IS Mechwarriors. Which would lead to the problem that there would be IS-players who can't get hurt by the enemy team until the clanners killed some IS mechs.

Ideas? Opinions?

[Steel Prophet]

Thats no. 45640897 i guess?

[William Denton]

Steel Prophet, on 14 July 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

Thats no. 45640897 i guess?

possibly

But as far as I read the other topics this idea never came up and I wanted to know if this could be a solution?

Edited by William Denton, 14 July 2012 - 10:08 AM.

[Bryan Kerensky]

I'm somewhat supportive of the bidding system. However, the "marked" idea for clanners doesn't seem to work in my opinion. Clanners do work together to accomplish an objective, and despite the advances in Clan technology, it does have it's drawbacks. Thus, it is unneeded. Not to mention that clan technology (through salvage and whatnot) will become available to stravags.

However, I still find your solution interesting.

[Jawbreaker6]

I don't think its possible on a scale we'd find useful.

The IS/Clan mode of warefare is dynamicaly opposed due to societal values stemming from their past experiences with warfare. The clans, having a collective history of suffering the cataclysm of the the Aramis coup and the following death and sestruction of their own civil war abore waste. They see death and destruction as an unpleasant outcome to a given conflict and something to be avoided at all costs. Hence the bargaining away of units and an overall lack of guile on the battlefield.

When its over the winner gets the prize, the destrucion/waste is minimal and life goes on. What it doesn't do, however, is make the experience so awful that the desire to revisit an issue is effective destroyed. That's why many of the clans carried on petty squabbles that infect their overal societal structure. i.e. Blood Ravens and the Burrocks, Jade Falcons and Wolves etc...

The IS, while not being thrilled with the notion of wiping somebody out, seem always ready willing and able to do an enemy anyway they can, short of WMDs. To the IS, a dead enemy is agood enemy. Takashi Kurita's method of killing dissenters all the way through a family line till third cousin or so. Nobody in the family of a killed man is left to crave revenge. Simple, brutal and effective. Total warfare, right down to heaving the kitchen sink at them. IE " the total Entropic Warfare plan for the Smoke Jaguar on their homeworld.

A society that operates by a rigid honor code cannot wage an effective AND honorable war with a society who doesn't have the same value system.

Vietnam/USA
Japan/USA
USA/Britain
USA/Middle East

The list goes on.

Honor is subjective. If victory is your overall goal, you have to decide which of the two is more important.

I for one would not want to take my Hunchback agains a Clanner in his or her machine of a similar weight class. It would outrange me, out gun me, deal with heat more effectively and its operator has an innate hatred of me and my kind AND does not put the same value on his or her life like I do.
"As long as the clan survives, my death is not important."

Nope. Gonna definitely back shoot him, bombard him from orbit, poison his water, whatever it takes because going into a fight with those kinds of odds means I'll be going home in a shoebox.

I may be old, but I didn't get old by being stupid.

[William Denton]

Bryan Kerensky, on 14 July 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:

Clanners do work together to accomplish an objective

The idea behind "marking" the enemy is that I wanted to somehow implement the idea that a duel between two battlemechs is the preferred way to fight for the clans. And it would definitely increase the wish to only attack one specific enemy at the time which is your personal enemy.
And I think at least at the beginning of the invasion the clans where arrogant enough to really stick to "just 1on1"

Just imagine how Clan-player wouldhate IS-players for running away and disrupting duels

Jawbreaker6, on 14 July 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

I don't think its possible on a scale we'd find useful.

Honor is subjective. If victory is your overall goal, you have to decide which of the two is more important.

I for one would not want to take my Hunchback agains a Clanner in his or her machine of a similar weight class. It would outrange me, out gun me, deal with heat more effectively and its operator has an innate hatred of me and my kind AND does not put the same value on his or her life like I do.
"As long as the clan survives, my death is not important."

Nope. Gonna definitely back shoot him, bombard him from orbit, poison his water, whatever it takes because going into a fight with those kinds of odds means I'll be going home in a shoebox.

I may be old, but I didn't get old by being stupid.

That is exactly the feeling I wanted to get by using the "marked"-rule. The Clans are so self-confident and out gun the IS mechs so redicoulusly that they can stick to their code of honor and still have a chance to win. The IS on the other hand will do anything that is necesarry to stop the tank-bred madmen in battlemechs from hell

Edited by William Denton, 14 July 2012 - 11:05 AM.

[Hunson Abadeer]

I don't think the damage dealt should be altered, but you could offer bonuses for killing a marked enemy without help and penalties for helping to kill someone else's marked enemy. The bonus should only apply to that one kill, and the penalty should just mean that less XP/C-Bills are given for that one kill/assist. The Clans would retain the ability to ignore the rules, but they would be encouraged to follow them. If you received 25-50% extra as a bonus and 25-50% less as a penalty, I think it would be strong encouragement.

[Wirecutter]

all that said, quite a few clans drop the duel system if the other side is being dishonorable...

[Lightdragon]

except that a duel between an outclassed battlemech is not a fair duel so... your point is moot the duel would always be unfairly tipped in clanners favor

[Bryan Kerensky]

Clan tech is only one part of it, the self-confidence you speak of that Clansmen seem to radiate also stems from their confidence in their piloting abilities. No player here (though some may deny it) is a vat grown,genetically enhanced and rigorously trained Mechwarrior. As for the "dueling" part, techwise a clanner should only have the advantage against a mech of a similar weight class.

Hunson Abadeer, on 14 July 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

I don't think the damage dealt should be altered, but you could offer bonuses for killing a marked enemy without help and penalties for helping to kill someone else's marked enemy. The bonus should only apply to that one kill, and the penalty should just mean that less XP/C-Bills are given for that one kill/assist. The Clans would retain the ability to ignore the rules, but they would be encouraged to follow them. If you received 25-50% extra as a bonus and 25-50% less as a penalty, I think it would be strong encouragement.

I like this idea, a carrot instead of a stick.

[Damascas]

Clanners duel in most battles but do not duel exclusively, just look at the Hell's Horses for example who largely utilize vehicles and in at least one occasion let their enemy line and prepare for a battle using zellbrigen before dropping artillery shells on them as the Jade Falcon clanners who were engaging the CHH warriors did not think to ask for zell beforehand.

For balancing just make matches 1 binary vs. 1 company, 10 v. 12.

[Semyon Drakon]

Remember also people it starts as a duel, then the IS warriors lancemate pops up and nails the clanner with support fire and the Star or Binary commander cancels Zellbringen and it's on like donkey Kong.

It can actually be in the IS pilots favour to fight duels because taking concentrated fire from 5 clam omni's is a sure fire way to die in seconds. At least 1 on 1 you have something of a chance!

Semyon

[JP Josh]

i say leave no balance from what iv read of the books and series it greatly depended on the clan if they chose the one on one or went by the rule of war where there are no rules that said i think clan wolf fallowed the second one if i remember rite. so thus i say keep the clan battles to the original story line leave no balance i dont care if i die so long as i take one clanner with me.