60 replies to this topic

[Navid A1]

I miss those times!






PGI....

Please understand that Victors are not the god-tier mechs from 2013.

Please tell paul we are sorry if we killed him with it

Please bring the victor back! (Only JJ boost and structure buffs will do the job)

Spoiler

Edited by Navid A1, 16 May 2016 - 01:05 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

Yeah, i think i liked this meta more than the current hill-humping laser vomit nonsense.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Juodas Varnas, on 16 May 2016 - 12:22 AM, said:

Yeah, i think i liked this meta more than the current hill-humping laser vomit nonsense.

Nooooope nope nope

RIght now SRMs are in a good place place and can compete with the laservomit. Dakka spam works pretty well too.

[El Bandito]

Just how do you want PGI to bring it back? Be more specific. Do you want ER/PPC heat to be reduced and velocity returned to 2000 m/s? Do you want to revert JJ boost nerf? Do you want to get rid of JJ shake? Do you want to get rid of Ghost Heat? Do you want to get rid of Gauss charge? Do you want Gauss cooldown reduced to 4 seconds? All of the above?

I was there during poptart heyday in 2013 and 2014. I know full well that the poptart meta made the game far more stale that the current meta. I definitely would not want it back 100%. In partial form, I can tolerate.

Edited by El Bandito, 16 May 2016 - 01:03 AM.

[Navid A1]

El Bandito, on 16 May 2016 - 12:57 AM, said:

Just how do you want PGI to bring it back? Be more specific. Do you want ER/PPC heat to be reduced and velocity returned to 2000 m/s? Do you want to revert JJ boost nerf? Do you want to get rid of JJ shake? Do you want to get rid of Ghost Heat? Do you want to get rid of Gauss charge? Do you want Gauss cooldown reduced to 4 seconds? All of the above?

I was there during poptart heyday in 2013 and 2014. I know full well that the poptart meta made the game far more stale that the current meta. I definitely would not want it back 100%. In partial form, I can tolerate.

Just JJ boost and structure buffs.

The thing is wider than an awesome!

[Zerberus]

Kaeb Odellas, on 16 May 2016 - 12:54 AM, said:

Nooooope nope nope

RIght now SRMs are in a good place place and can compete with the laservomit. Dakka spam works pretty well too.

And if you actually understand how to use tehm properly, even LRMs are semi-viable.

Balance wise the game is probably in the best place it´s been in well over 2 years. The only people getting regularly shafted by their own choice of guns are Poptarts... And after 3 years or so of that always bein the "go to" meta, they can stay bent over another year or so for good measure.

And historically seen, they already ****** up the the multiplayer experience of MW3 and MW4 for sears on end unchallenged, it´s far overdue that they finally get put in their place.

And yes, I also own a Dragon Slayer... simply because that´s just how bad it was back then, enough that even people like myself that absolutely despise the playstyle were forced to adopt it just to have a chance, in no small part becasue a vocal minority whined everything else into total nerfdom.

Don´t get me wrong, I´m not opposed to making it viable enough that we see 1 or 2 again every so often. But as soon as that happens, the chances are good that suddenly everyone will be doing it again, simply because the low risk, high reward "jump, shoot, land, cool down, repeat" style plays right into the hands of most people being huge ******* cowards that think playing Nintendo Mech Hunt requires some form of über-1337 SN1P0R mega-aiming Skillz, and the game will be thoroughly borked once again. Therefore PGI needs top proceed with extreme caution to avoid bringing it back as the dominant meta, or the large majority that doesn´t enjoy Toaster Pastry Online will be the ones getting shafted again.

Edited by Zerberus, 16 May 2016 - 01:21 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

The PPC / poptart meta was probably the most boring meta in the history of MWO, with the possible exception of the Streakraven Wolfpack meta, back when solo players could face 4-man groups.

But yeah, bring some of it back. Don't be scared. I actually wouldn't be adverse to syncing PPC and AC10 speed again, just to encourage some sort of weapon synergy and reduce the amount of quirk-based boating. And the Class I jump jets have been paperweights for, what, 2 years? PGI don't give a f***.

I don't think the poptart meta could come back the same way today, unless they severely reduced PPC and ER PPC heat. Because we now have ~90 kph Timber Wolves, EBJ's and Black Knights, as well as 100+ kph Griffins and Stormcrows, boating more lasers and SRMs than ever, and the static poptart teams of 2013 would get swarmed and destroyed in a brawl.

Not to mention Clan XLs and structure quirks, which make it less dangerous to rush poptarts than before.

Navid A1, on 15 May 2016 - 11:58 PM, said:

Please tell paul we are sorry if we killed him with it

Paul actually said poptarts should remain a viable way of playing the game when he began nerfing poptarts.

And then he replaced Class I jump jets with 2-ton vacuum cleaners, and left them for 3 years. Not sure if that was intentional or just normalized.

[J0anna]

If all they did was revert the changes in JJ's, I'd be pleased. Keep all the other nerfs, extend the shake another 1/2 second, hell even remove the ability to shoot while not on the ground if need be, but for Kerensky's sake please give us jump jets that can actually jump.....

[STEF_]

[Moldur]

I was just thinking about how the filler shots in that video looked better than most other MWO footage.

[Cyborne Elemental]

#1. fix hitreg, so that aiming at a guy's rt/ct/lt when he's jumping actually records the damage where it shows you hitting. (no more desynced hitboxes, or lagshots)

#2. Slowly bring back JJ thrust speeds and height caps.

#3. Find a balance between classes where JJ's can be more or less equal between weight classes vs the weight investment.
(not like we have now, where 8 tons of JJ-1 barely get you up, but 2 tons of JJ-iV let you clear buildings)

#4. Figure out collisions so teleporting through and rubberbanding around people is a distant past joke, then we can have DFA. (highlander ring a bell? Kodiak?)

#5. Work in a better accuracy or convergence system that is linked to JJ flight, making weapons fire a little harder to keep on target when in flight.

Edited by Mister D, 16 May 2016 - 02:03 AM.

[Navid A1]

Zerberus, on 16 May 2016 - 01:06 AM, said:

And if you actually understand how to use tehm properly, even LRMs are semi-viable.

Balance wise the game is probably in the best place it´s been in well over 2 years. The only people getting regularly shafted by their own choice of guns are Poptarts... And after 3 years or so of that always bein the "go to" meta, they can stay bent over another year or so for good measure.

And historically seen, they already ****** up the the multiplayer experience of MW3 and MW4 for sears on end unchallenged, it´s far overdue that they finally get put in their place.

And yes, I also own a Dragon Slayer... simply because that´s just how bad it was back then, enough that even people like myself that absolutely despise the playstyle were forced to adopt it just to have a chance, in no small part becasue a vocal minority whined everything else into total nerfdom.

Don´t get me wrong, I´m not opposed to making it viable enough that we see 1 or 2 again every so often. But as soon as that happens, the chances are good that suddenly everyone will be doing it again, simply because the low risk, high reward "jump, shoot, land, cool down, repeat" style plays right into the hands of most people being huge ******* cowards that think playing Nintendo Mech Hunt requires some form of über-1337 SN1P0R mega-aiming Skillz, and the game will be thoroughly borked once again. Therefore PGI needs top proceed with extreme caution to avoid bringing it back as the dominant meta, or the large majority that doesn´t enjoy Toaster Pastry Online will be the ones getting shafted again.

The best place its been in over 2 years ...
You mean 3 Large pulse lasers + 4 Medium lasers on every mech?
Dat variety!!!

I don't think anyone in these forums hates meta more than I (maybe bishop steiner too...lol)... And i'm telling you when you screw every other weapon and system in the game... 60+ giga-alpha laser puke is what you get.

Poptart meta was not good by any means... PGI just killed every poptart "mech" instead of killing poptarting!

[Lightfoot]

Just make it so you can't fire Gauss with other weapons and get rid of the charge-up. No excuse for what PGI did to jump-jets either. They are part of the game even if some players don't know how to kill a mech with jump-jets. That was just a L2P problem, not a problem with jump-jets working to well. MWO's original strength jump-jets should be brought back. It's part of MechWarrior like it or not.

Edited by Lightfoot, 16 May 2016 - 02:10 AM.

[STEF_]

Navid A1, on 16 May 2016 - 02:09 AM, said:

PGI just killed every poptart "mech" instead of killing poptarting!

100% this.
Kill the mech, kill the issue------> pgi

[SmoothCriminal]

I think hoverjets is probably the best place to start. Then PPC hit reg. What happens when they stream the super-important e-sports tournament worldwide and everyone watches as certain weapons simply do not register damage?

Imagine CS:GO, COD or halo having weapons where occasionally bullets just wouldn't register...

[Zerberus]

Navid A1, on 16 May 2016 - 02:09 AM, said:

The best place its been in over 2 years ...
You mean 3 Large pulse lasers + 4 Medium lasers on every mech?
Dat variety!!!

I don't think anyone in these forums hates meta more than I (maybe bishop steiner too...lol)... And i'm telling you when you screw every other weapon and system in the game... 60+ giga-alpha laser puke is what you get.

Poptart meta was not good by any means... PGI just killed every poptart "mech" instead of killing poptarting!

ACs overall could use some love, as could (unquirked!!!!) ppcs, but SRMs and SSRM for example are actually in a prety good place right now, which can be seen regularly in QP, FW Scouting, and non FW organized comp play.. I feel that one of the prime reasons laservomit is so prevalent (as said in FW invasion significantly moreso than QP or even scouting) is that people continue to seem to count on possibly having to use that one mech for 3 minutes, which basically rules out anything that needs ammo for it´s primary weapons system.

But either way, yes, I do I consider laservomit, srm boating, occasional lrms and an AC20 or 2 here or there to be significantly preferable to "all ppc+AC5 (or gauss before the charge mechanic came and finally made the gauss more than just another ac), all the time"

Edited by Zerberus, 16 May 2016 - 02:52 AM.

[Lightfoot]

Laser vomit is the best. Has nothing to do with ammo running out. PGI has just nerfed Gauss, PPCs, AC2's LRMs so far down that they do not challenge lasers with better range anymore. Lasers always were the best DPS/per ton-heat, now they are no longer under any range challenge. Some 90-100 ton assaults can't carry all lasers and not explode or they would, but you just can't make 8 ER large pulse lasers work, even with 32 dhs.

MWO's fix for jump-jets by turning them into hover jets is a total failure though.

[Nightshade24]

Juodas Varnas, on 16 May 2016 - 12:22 AM, said:

Yeah, i think i liked this meta more than the current hill-humping laser vomit nonsense.

Hill humping laser vomit, jump jetting PPC vomit.

All the same to me.


Now if the meta is ever going in the open tanking shots and returning fire and spotting for LRM's now THAT is what I would say bravo to PGI.

[Nightshade24]

El Bandito, on 16 May 2016 - 12:57 AM, said:

Just how do you want PGI to bring it back? Be more specific. Do you want ER/PPC heat to be reduced and velocity returned to 2000 m/s? Do you want to revert JJ boost nerf? Do you want to get rid of JJ shake? Do you want to get rid of Ghost Heat? Do you want to get rid of Gauss charge? Do you want Gauss cooldown reduced to 4 seconds? All of the above?

I was there during poptart heyday in 2013 and 2014. I know full well that the poptart meta made the game far more stale that the current meta. I definitely would not want it back 100%. In partial form, I can tolerate.

at least back then I could alpha strike with LRM's and can single out a mech and crush it in a few seconds with it... or machine guns having 1.0 DPS instead of 0.8... ah. good ol' days...

But anyway. I think Gaijin should like revert the JJ nerf in terms of alt but the heavier mechs take much more longer to recharge the JJ to the point you can't pop tart for most of your shots. My 2 cents.

[Macster16]

Mister D, on 16 May 2016 - 02:02 AM, said:

#1. fix hitreg, so that aiming at a guy's rt/ct/lt when he's jumping actually records the damage where it shows you hitting. (no more desynced hitboxes, or lagshots)

Actually, pre-hitreg improvements, it was nigh on impossible to reliably hit an airborne mech which was one of the reasons poptarting was big back in the day. However, since the hitreg upgrade which came last year, JJs no longer give the wonky hitreg warping they used to which is another reason I'd argue the poptart will not reign supreme again. In the current game, poptarting often results in getting an alpha or two to the face and having the damage actually register where it hits which is not a good trade. There are already some fairly competent poptart builds like the BJ-3, HBK-IIC and Summoner which would've been dominant back in the poptart era, but the game has progressed where there are actually solid counters to poptarting unlike before.