27 replies to this topic

[Wedge Red Leader]

After putting together some builds and piloting each for a few rounds I came to some conclusions. First one was that putting a build together was a bit trickier than I expected. Mainly getting a good matchup with slots and tonnage, without making a ridiculously hot build. That said, I did mostly go with items I had on hand to make my builds. Over the next few weeks I would expect a few really good builds to emerge. And I suspect many of the them will use a smaller engine, like an XL375.

KDK-1 - really good up close, especially on those pesky lights. And yes, that is a TC3 I had laying around, and it fit the build well
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...abcbe96f6616c9c

KDK-2 - least favorite of the bunch, but I wanted one variant with some reach
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bd3da1af59f5917

KDK-3 - lots of fun up close with dual UAC-20s
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2a6d3f89f18198b

KDK-3 - of my builds I suspect this one might someday be close to meta
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...24d6bf8ba46e04b

After sorting out a few builds and getting some of the basics done, I found it acceptable to pilot. For a 100ton mech the KDK2 and 3 move relatively well. The KDK-1 seems to have missed the quirk bus The hard points are good, the torso ones are nice and high. For sure the highest of the 100 tonners. And dew to the torso mounting of all the ballistics the convergence for them is good on the KDK-3. Anyway so far so good, I give it a 7/10. I don't feel the meta move much towards this mech, but who knows.

Edited by Wedge Red Leader, 17 May 2016 - 08:41 PM.

[Kimberm1911]

Right the meta is a bit scewed because everyone is running the darn thing. Quad UAC-10 seems to be extremely popular, and the KDK-3 is definitely going to become the most "meta" after everything dies down. Quad gauss is actually a thing on the kdk-3 I ran it with some effectiveness tonight. I feel that once everything on the battlefield isn't a kodiak, quad gauss might actually be pretty good. Anyways, nice builds.

[Raso]

I know it seems to be the least popular but the KDK-2 does have JJs. No other variant has that sort of navigational advantage.

Here are two designs.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f26cf0e214925ec

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...606dd5df9a8d2ac

Both are designed for close range skirmishing. The former has more range options. The latter does not.

[Raso]

So I'm still struggling with the KDK-2. I tried an LMX20/SRM6 combo, I tried a UAC20 and mixing it with different combinations of medium and small lasers and I just can't make it work. I also have not been able to get it onto Canyon Network ONCE. Does anyone have any ideas on how to make the KDK-2 work? I suck at snap aiming so a poptart isn't really an option...

[Moebius Pi]

Try 5 LPL, with weapon groups set to 3 and 2, a group set to 4, or hell, a 2 and 2 as needed. The amount of DHS you can cram in fiddling around with it (and if I remember right, taking out ENDO, downsizing the engine etc.) can compensate pretty readily to make it manageable with good cover and heat management. Not so sure I'd say it's the optimal KDK-2 build... but hey, never hurts to run different loadouts for kicks. Hell, you could do what some Highlander IICs were, and go triple LPL and a Gauss given the DHS cramming you can do.

I've seen a few running 4 LPL, 2 ER meds as well with some success with two groups to divide the lpl, and quite a few running 1 Gauss, 2 LPL, 4 Meds for something of a traditional Gauss Vomit cranked up a notch or two.

Oddly enough the 5 LPL was the most consistent for me, but that was very luck-of-the-map-draw. Jump jets wise though... 2 tons to lightly hover hasn't ever seemed worth the while.

KDK-1s, well, until eliting they're a bit rough, so I've just gone HAM with an LBX 20 or UAC20, 4 MPL, 2 SRM 6 with Art, or 8 SPL UAC20 double tap of "I should not have went around that corner" hijinks for fun. You just don't Alpha or double tap twice unless you want to overheat. Double tap once, follow up with a second volley of 2 of the 3 weapon types if need be. Fun, but short ranges feast or famine, but still enjoyable on a few maps.

[Raso]

I just stripped my KDK-2 down to 4 LLas and 2 SPS.... it feels wrong but I'm giving it a shot. I may try a collection of LPLs next. Boy, that free 6mil Cbills certainly came in handy!

[PeeWrinkle]

Yep, these things suck. I thought they would be great. Seriously an XL400 = cant twist, twist slower than a direwolf with and XL300. The center torso is the biggest in the game. I am convinced the if you totaled up entire hitbox area that the CT would make up 90% or more of that area.

I can't play them. I'm not a great assault pilot, but these are by far the worst for me. Oddly enough my first couple matches in each were okay, as I unlocked basics they got worse and worse. Never experienced that before. It's confusing because I thought these would end up being the best mech in the game.

Right now I have quit playing them and just hunt them on the battlefield. Mediums and Heavies with decent speed can just run around them and hit them in the CT while the try to twist and avoid, the re-lineup their shots. Its shocking how easy it is to kill them this way. And they can forget it if they are focused on another opponent. I don't even have to aim to hit the CT. I just laugh now when I am shooting at them and I should be hitting their arm or leg and the CT is indicating damage taken.

[Steel Raven]

Sorry to hear that, I've been terrible at assaults and the Kodiak has worked out great for me.

[OrphanKiller 26]

Agreed, I have had trouble finding a good balance. That said I don't not have allot of Clan equipment so im working with what I have. I have played with 8 ERML and one LPL on the K1 with a TC 5 and have had good results. You do need to set up your firing order well or you will overheat quick.

[ImperialKnight]

people need to learn how to shield properly, and for crying out loud, the KDK is still a 100 ton Assault mech. It's not a be all end all Super Robot Gundam Magic Mech. Stop face tanking.

every mech has its own characteristics. If you bring your habits from the Atlas to the KDK, you're going to have a bad time. The hitbox on the Atlas and KDK are completely different. The Atlas can get away with less twisting to shield but the KDK needs to commit to almost a full 90 to start shielding with the ST and Arms.

Yes, the CT hitbox is bigger and easier to hit, that's why you need to commit to the shielding more while your weapons reload. The KDK carries massively more firepower than the Atlas, of course it's going to have drawbacks.

And KDKs need more FLD weapons, with maybe the KDK-3 as an exception. That means contrary to its stock build, UAC20s are not very good weapons for it. Pulse lasers are almost a necessity for the KDK to reduce the amount of exposure time.

[Veolfen]

Yeah the KDK feels less tanky, but, it's like saying "I feel that the Timber Wolf isn't tanky for a 75 ton mech, especially compared to the Marauder".

The KDK can boat a lot of firepower, still has a lot of armor (it's still a 100 ton mech), and it goes at 64.8 kph (and 69.7 with speed tweek). The Spirit Bear can even go at 84+ with the masc.

It's one of the most effective assaults I ever played.

Edited by Veolfen, 23 May 2016 - 09:08 AM.

[PeeWrinkle]

I believe I have finally found some builds that I can pilot well. I looked at my two major problems and realized I could solve at least one of them easily.

That issue was for some reason I could not use the Ultra ACs with any reliability on my Kodiaks. They would often lock up after one shot. Which I thought was odd, as I typically fire them just faster than the regular cooldown (1 shot about every 1.5-2 seconds) when I am engaged heavily. So I got rid of the UACs all together (well mostly).

That one change helped me a lot. Even though the UACs are some of my favorite weapons and I use them on many other mechs, I could not work with them on this one.

The other issue is that the CT is a fire magnet. That one I just have to deal with, but having faster cycling and cooler weapons has helped. Other mechs tend to turn when I am hitting them with more constant rates of fire. I guess they are expecting a big alpha and a shutdown? Regardless I never alpha in these anymore.

As for builds I have settled on the ones below.
KDK-1: Very cool running pulse vomit. I just alternate fire between the 2LPLs in the RA and the 2LPLs in the LA. If I get too hot I chain fire.

KDK-2: A little gauss vomit. Nice and cool and a bit of range too. I fire Gauss on WG3, 2LPL in RA on WG1, and 1LPL in CT on WG2. Virtually never over heats. If it does I messed up.

KDK-3: Dual Gauss. Decently cool mech, I have debated dropping the SPLs and going ERML or adding 2 DHS, but I like the way it runs currently. 2 Gauss on WG3, 2LPLs on WG1, and 2SPLs on WG2.
With the KDK-3 I really want to use more dakka, but had no success with it. So I never use more than two ACs. I have tried a Dual UAC10 Build and go it to work well (which allowed me to use the XL385 I already bought).
In theory I could swap in Dual LBX20s and drop the SPLs, but I'd have to upgrade to an XL395, so I will try that when I want to drop CBills on an engine. The same is also true for Dual UAC20s, but Id have to drop the SPLs for DHS and put in an XL390 engine. Also a bit expensive. Yes I could keep the XL400, but the heat is too much for me if I do.

The toughest variant for me to settle on a build is the Spirit Bear. I am trying to decide if MASC is really worth it. I like it when I have it and miss it sometimes when I don't. However when I don't have it I am much cooler. I also am flip flopping between brawling and ranged in this one. While I hate LRMs, this mech seems to run them effectively. And if you ever loose patience in a brawling load out you will have trouble getting close enough to be effective. Ironically this variant has been my most consistent performer and and works well with all the builds I have tried so far.
KDK-SB Builds:
LBX20 Brawler: Because I hate UACs in these. Just mean if I get in your face. Chain fire those weapon groups and you should manage heat well. You can do pretty much the same thing with a UAC20, but I didn't like it as much because of the the constant jamming.
LPL Brawler: A bit hotter and only an XL375, but it works well as the LPLs can be devastating and give you a bit more range. This build is too hot if you swap in an UAC20 IMO.
LRM Ranged: As painful as it is for me to use LRMs this might be my favorite build. I use the LRMs at range and brawl with them as well. Yep an LRM brawler, sort of.
Then there are my no MASC builds.
UAC20 Brawler: Cool enough for the UAC20 for me, but I have tried it with the LBX20 and it worked well. I like this layout a bit better with the UAC20 though.
LPL Brawler: I stuck with the UAC20 on this one. It also drops to an XL375. It is a bit hot so I like the LBX20 version better.
With this build I thought about dropping one SRM6 and adding armor a DHS and a TC1 (or upgrading to an XL380 instead of the TC1 - Which allows for and LBX20 build if preferred). If I run into terrible heat issues I will give that a shot. Assuming I don't end up deciding MASC is a must and use my other SB builds instead.

It still is not completely out performing my other assaults, but it is getting there. At least I don't feel like fodder anymore.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

Kimberm1911, on 17 May 2016 - 07:50 PM, said:

Right the meta is a bit scewed because everyone is running the darn thing. Quad UAC-10 seems to be extremely popular, and the KDK-3 is definitely going to become the most "meta" after everything dies down. Quad gauss is actually a thing on the kdk-3 I ran it with some effectiveness tonight. I feel that once everything on the battlefield isn't a kodiak, quad gauss might actually be pretty good. Anyways, nice builds.

I don't own the mech and not a fan of side torso gauss, but FWIW




I have a unit mate who specializes in Gauss builds (mostly) and he only runs the Quad Gauss build on his KDK-3.

[PeeWrinkle]

Keshav Murali, on 24 May 2016 - 05:59 AM, said:

I have a unit mate who specializes in Gauss builds (mostly) and he only runs the Quad Gauss build on his KDK-3.

That's impressive: 1059 damage! On that build he had 75 total shots, which is a max damage of 1125!!! quite impressive, he was almost 100% accurate.

[Wedge Red Leader]

Just thought I'd post a follow up. As usual, I'm batting about 500.
I will standby my 7/10 overall rating, however the KDK-3 is a meta beast. The other variants, IMHO, are less blessed to some extent. And in my hands the one build the really stands out is the quad UAC10s. And yes, I have tried many of the builds posted here and else where. Let me break it down.

1) uses 4 ballistic hard points that are high in the torso. So all the cannons can hit pretty much anything you can see. Most of the other variants/builds rely on lower mounted energy weapons to complete the build.
2) You can keep the XL engine. The extra speed and integrated heat sinks are nice. If you had to got to something like a STD300-325 engine for a quad gauss build you would be taking a performance hit.
3) The KDK-3 has the standard Kodiak structure and mobility quirks. The model 1 and 5 got left behind by the quirk bus. Although the quirks are a moderate, they do make a difference.
4) The heat load is acceptable. The UAC10 itself is a pretty cool running weapon, and even the ghost heat is manageable. Unlike running dual UAC20s where the ghost heat is crazy.
5) Multiple benefits from boating one weapon. Like more focused damage, a set projectile speed, ammo commonality, and equipping double modules (without neglecting other weapons).
6) Tonnage synergy (ya I kind of just made that up). Basically, you don't have to equip a crazy small or large engine to make it work. BTW, I did call the XL375 being a popular engine choice. FWIW, the XL 375 will facilitate many "good" builds for the Kodiak. Although maybe a size or two off ideal for some builds, but it will still work

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a710ada02bb0c84

Finally we have a true assault mech that the dang Jenner pilots think twice about poking. Fear the bear!
Also, I give my thanks to making a PGI for making a nice looking mech. I'm trying to forget about the Care bear head...

Edited by Wedge Red Leader, 06 June 2016 - 08:18 PM.

[Raso]

I still prefer my dual UAC10 and dual UAC5 KDK-3. The sustained fire power is nice, I have a 375 engine and far better heat efficiency. It's much better in a fur ball and I don't have to retreat to coll down as much.

That said. I have a build for my KDK-1, which I like (8 SPSs, 1 LPL and a UAC20) and I find it to be very effective at close range.

However I still, for the life of me, can not find a build for my KDK-2 that I enjoy. I tried 4 LPLs but it felt.... wrong. IDK maybe I should just go with 4 MPLs, a UAC20 and an SRM6 but it feels so bland to me (and runs hotter than I would prefer without packing the sort of punch I would want it to for an ambusher). I'm also not thrilled with running my KDK-2 as a jump sniper because that's not my style....

[Malystryx VoF]

this is the KDK-3 build with a bit more ammo (90 rounds now), too bad i didn't have a video of this match running, but you can see it works pretty damn well if you know how to work a gauss.

Edited by Malystryx VoF, 07 June 2016 - 01:31 PM.

[Black Ivan]

What are the CW builts for the Kodiak ? Idon't want to run out of AC 10 Ultra ammo midfight

[Chi Guy 1]

The latest patch ruined my Kodiak builds. I spent a lot of c-bills and real money to build and elite my Kodiaks. That last patch ruined my Kodiaks. I want a refund if they don't put Kodiak back to where it was before the rippoff patch. They messed up ballistic weapons AND the performance of the Kodiak AFTER i invested time and money into it.

Chi Guy

[Arugela]

I've been running these:

KDK-1
KDK-2
KDK-3 Experimental / 2 / 3<- Probably not a good builds but an example of chainfire capable ERSL's/SPL's. (I was running QuadGauss and Quad UAC/10's but changed for fun.)
Extras:
KDK-4
KDK-5
KDK-SB / 2

For the KDK-1 simply pulse one arm then fire the rest so you never fire more than 6 lasers. If you do alpha it's only 10.2 ghost heat and is manageable.

Remember to use corner hugging tactics. This is where you pop only your arm out so it can only take damage. then fire you guns over and over. Not even your shoulder takes damage when done right and the arm is a smaller target(I believe this is the use of all small mech arms.). You can get tons of damage over time. Doesn't' matter if you pulse or chain fire depending on circumstances. The KDK-1/5 were built for this. It has the ability to peak from all angles. I think that is it's main purpose. Left right and top.

If you a have 5 button mouse with scroll wheel and scroll wheel press you can get all 6 attack buttons and alpha on the mouse.

I use: (KDK-1/2/5/SB Example)

1: UAC/20 (left mouse button)
2: SRM/6(LPL) (right mouse button)
3: LorR Hand SPL's (Chainfire) (Backwards Thumb mouse button)
4: LorR Hand SPL's (Chainfire) (Forwards Thumb mouse button)
5: LorR Hand SPL's+BellybuttonSPL (NormalFire) (Scroll Wheel Forward button)
6: LorR Hand SPL's+BellybuttonSPL (NormalFire) (Scroll Wheel Backward button)
7: Alpha (Scroll Wheel Press button)

I think I used to hear about the arm peaking along time ago visiting these games forum or something. But I don't think it's a common tactic anymore.

The Kodiak has so many lasers specifically so it can use these tactics. It's not meant to necessarily shoot them all at once. But you want full even bidirectional fire capability for peaking and hiding. This helps reduce the harm of the bad hitboxes a bit. The KDK-2 obviously has jj's for positioning and KDK-3 has yaw turn rates for face time for the same reason.

And the beautiful thing about SPL's and Kodiak's is that after 20 double heatsinks the Chainfire of SPL's is free and even still looses heat as you fire it one at a time if you have more.

If you notice the KDK-5's default setup, it particularly brings out the tactic of having one arm chain fire 4 lasers while the other popping 5 lasers. This is an intended Kodiak strategy for laser heat management. This way you always stay in the 6 small/medium laser fire limits. The KDK-5 is very good at face stripping armor also. It's default is very good because of the raw damage.

If you mess with enough of these tactics the changes won't ruin the kodiaks. It will make you learn all of their intended tactics and learn to maximize them. Always look at their default builds first. They are there for a reason to show you something.

When you learn those tacticts always pay attention to the lasers setups and the heat per second you gain on smurfy to see what you can do with 4 lasers in chainfire and other tricks. It helps give fire options to win easier. Make sure to manually calculate the heat per second though as smurfy is not calculating this correctly. Use (Heat/Duration) as the chianfire will shoot at the end of each duration automatically.

Examples: SPL (3heat/.75=4 heat persecond.) That is 20 double heatsinks exactly; ERSM (3heat/1=3), for 14 or 15 double heat sinks; ERML (6/1.15=5.217..) That is 27 double heat sinks.

This is an example of chainfireing ERML's on a KDK-5. You can still chainfire and pulse from each hand and hide behind walls for peaking your enemies to death:

KD-5

Not sure if it's better than the default KDK-5 though. It's extra damage allow really good face stripping with the gauss.

KDK-5 Stock

You will notice it has 2 large for max before ghost heat, then 4 on one side to chainfire and 5 on the other. This is intentional. Chainfire the four and help with the other 5 or ERll when needed and the gauss after firing everything off or low on heat. with 23 Double heatsinks the chainfireing doesn't build up too much but it's not free. But it's enough to make it very useable.

You may also notice most kodiaks have 4/6 or more lasers. This is the reason. It's about chainfireing and combos. The only one with less is the KDK-SB I think. BTW, the minimum to chainfire constantly is 4 lasers. And with CD mods. possibly 3 in some cases. medium and small lasers for clan cand fire up to 6 lasers without ghost heat. Everything else(laserwise) 2, except flamers and tag.

And remember, clan small lasers are like IS medium lasers. So you can use them for a lot! If you are on that moon map you can fire all the way across the top platform with SPL's and ERSL for clan. It is not lacking range per say.

Also, SPL's have the least ghost heat for clan lasers. If you want to overfire any lasers use them.

Edited by Arugela, 24 November 2016 - 07:18 AM.