25 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

Fire 2 of them at once, no GH. Doubletap 2 of them within 0.5sec, yes GH. Fire 3 or 4 at once, yes GH. Doubletap 3 or 4 within 0.5 sec, very much GH.

Seems about right to me. It requires a user to carefully alternate pairs of UAC/10 and not simply SPAM ALL TEH GUNZ or else it runs hotter than a laser loadout.

It seems like the right balance of punishment for mistakes and requires the right amount of skill to achieve high heat efficiency...

Given that we have Ghost Heat (so all replies saying "we should not have Ghost Heat" are off-topic), do you think the amount applied and the thresholds are about right for UAC/10?

Edited by Prosperity Park, 18 May 2016 - 12:48 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Prosperity Park, on 18 May 2016 - 12:45 PM, said:

Fire 2 of them at once, no GH. Doubletap 2 of them within 0.5sec, yes GH. Fire 3 or 4 at once, yes GH. Doubletap 3 or 4 within 0.5 sec, very much GH.

Seems about right to me. It requires a user to carefully alternate pairs of UAC/10 and not simply SPAM ALL TEH GUNZ or else it runs hotter than a laser loadout.

It seems like the right balance of punishment for mistakes and requires the right amount of skill to achieve high heat efficiency...

Given that we have Ghost Heat (so all replies saying "we should not have Ghost Heat" are off-topic), do you think the amount applied and the thresholds are about right for UAC/10?

Yup. No way about it,. you wanna put down withering UAC dakka, you gonna get hot. UAC20 .....does it GH with every Double tap? (being an ac20?)

[Felicitatem Parco]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 May 2016 - 12:50 PM, said:

Yup. No way about it,. you wanna put down withering UAC dakka, you gonna get hot. UAC20 .....does it GH with every Double tap? (being an ac20?)

Only if you Doubletap within 0.5 sec.

Doubletapping a UAC is treated as 2 firing instances, so it can potentially trigger GH if your bursts are fired less than 0.5 apart.

This can sometimes get people unexpectedly when they loose a doubletap as the result of firing just before the full recycle period ( fires their "doubletap" immediately before firing their next primary shot, evoking GH).

Edited by Prosperity Park, 18 May 2016 - 12:57 PM.

[DONTOR]

Holy crap I had no idea CUAC20 could GH itself ROFL.

[Corrado]

given the potential burst DPS, it's situational to carry on the GH when you really know you can blow up your target or when you take a snapshot (i.e. that locust stops unaware and you double tap your 4 barrels or you're strafing to another position with a good primary target to snapshot)

i never made effective use of the 2uac10 3uac5 whale anyway, always gone 6uac5 or 4uac10 on it.

DONTOR, on 18 May 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

Holy crap I had no idea CUAC20 could GH itself ROFL.

i never noticed, given i ran a lot of 2uac20 warhawk and 3uac20 whale. chainfiring doubletap never had GH... but two 2UAC20 alphas led to 95% heat.

[Evan20k]

I feel like the UAC20 is too punishing for doubletapping, but the 10s feel just right.

[Metus regem]

GH on the AC/20 or UAC/20 just feels silly... they require a lot of tonnage and crit space investment... not to mention run hot to begin with 6 (7 for the UAC) heat every-time it fires, and it can do every 4-ish seconds adds up fast... getting punished more than that for something that requires such investment to even use just feels off....

As for the 10's /shurg never really noticed GH on them... I tend to set two weapon groups to chain fire on alternating timing, usually about 1 second with group 1 starting a gun or so before group 2.

[Jman5]

DONTOR, on 18 May 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

Holy crap I had no idea CUAC20 could GH itself ROFL.

You can't. It's easily tested. Fire two single shot and look at your heat. Then fire one twice.

If UAC/20 triggered ghost heat on immediate double tap, you would overheat so fast with it.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Jman5, on 18 May 2016 - 01:30 PM, said:

You can't. It's easily tested. Fire two single shot and look at your heat. Then fire one twice.

If UAC/20 triggered ghost heat on immediate double tap, you would overheat so fast with it.

Fire once, then fire your doubletap immediately before the recycle is complete and hold the trigger to fire a third burst. You will fire a total of 3 bursts, and the 2nd and 3rd bursts will overlap so much you get taxed with GH.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 18 May 2016 - 02:11 PM.

[Solis Obscuri]

Prosperity Park, on 18 May 2016 - 02:08 PM, said:

Fire once, then fire your doubletap immediately before the recycle is complete and hold the trigger to fire a third burst. You will fire a total of 3 bursts, and the 2nd and 3rd bursts will overlap so much you get taxed with GH.

http://youtu.be/MSUz5GtZyko

Edited by Solis Obscuri, 18 May 2016 - 03:24 PM.

[Idealsuspect]

Solis Obscuri, on 18 May 2016 - 03:23 PM, said:

http://youtu.be/MSUz5GtZyko

This guy look like russ bullock a bit

[Kau]

Solis Obscuri, on 18 May 2016 - 03:23 PM, said:

http://youtu.be/MSUz5GtZyko

I feel like i got Rick Rolled (or Thor Von Clemson'd?)

Edited by Kau, 18 May 2016 - 04:06 PM.

[LordNothing]

ballistics that are not 2s, cacs and machine guns (some would argue lbx but ive been finding them more useful than ever since the spread buff) are the model of balance in the game.

Edited by LordNothing, 18 May 2016 - 05:17 PM.

[Zordicron]

Clan UAC10's feel about right to me. Running more than 2 makes it hot enough to pretty much preclude any laser back up weapons being alpha'd alongside. I had a quad UAC10+4 ERML loadout I ran on a DWF for a bit, you could put an alpha out there on that and not overheat(double tap included) but that was IT, totally not sustainable for a fight.

So, reading between the lines, NO I do NOT think UAC10's need some kind of nerf or GH adjustment.

Do IS AC10's still have GH at 3? I always thought that was sort of stupid given the weight and hardpoint/critspace limitations. IMO IS AC10 GH could go away like AC2.

Of all the ballistics, CUAC20's are prolly hit a little too hard. I am OK with how it is as far as threshold etc, BUT, it is too easy to trigger it through weird circumstance/timing. I have always wondered if we wouldn't just be better off with UAC20's simply raising heat a bit and then changing the threshold to 3 instead of 2, so a single mounted uac20 would never be able to trigger gh, but would run a little hotter to compensate, and IMO firing twin UAC20's, WITHOUT double tap as 40 dmg should'nt really trigger GH in the current state of game, when heavy and assault mechs with "firepower" loadouts well above 70 are fairly common. If the UAC20 ran a bit hotter then now, firing two of them would be balanced by their own heat then too.

Otherwise IMO ballistics in general are probably in the best place they have ever been. Only the AC2 class and MG could really use any attention out of the lot.

[El Bandito]

Zordicron, on 18 May 2016 - 05:24 PM, said:

Of all the ballistics, CUAC20's are prolly hit a little too hard. I am OK with how it is as far as threshold etc, BUT, it is too easy to trigger it through weird circumstance/timing.

All you have to do is to press and hold the fire button and CUACs will never double tap. Can't get simpler than that.

[Felicitatem Parco]

El Bandito, on 18 May 2016 - 07:23 PM, said:

All you have to do is to press and hold the fire button and CUACs will never double tap. Can't get simpler than that.

Yeah, but they are intended to be used for Doubletapping... that's one reason they have burst fire instead of single slugs (other reasons being size and weight are less than IS).

However, it makes sense to GH a single UAC/20 because if you DT right at the end of your recycle, then you fire essentially a 40pt burst in the time it takes to fire normal 20pt burst.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 19 May 2016 - 09:28 AM.

[Ultimax]

I personally don't like the amount of GH right now on UAC 10s, or any dakka/ballistic build for that matter.

I think the era where something like an AC 40 build on a Jager needing ghost heat is long gone, it's ridiculous such a build has that much ghost heat.


One of the advantages that ballistics need to have vs. energy weapons is low heat firepower - this is the necessary advantage a DPS build or high tonnage weapon systems (ballistics) needs over a high alpha build or low tonnage weapon systems (lasers).

Edited by Ultimax, 19 May 2016 - 09:29 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Ultimax, on 19 May 2016 - 09:28 AM, said:

I personally don't like the amount of GH right now on UAC 10s, or any dakka/ballistic build for that matter.

I think the era where something like an AC 40 build on a Jager needing ghost heat is long gone, it's ridiculous such a build has that much ghost heat.


One of the advantages that ballistics need to have vs. energy weapons is low heat firepower - this is the necessary advantage a DPS build needs over a high alpha build.

Hey, I would love the removal of GH from AC/20 and UACs... because I love ballistics and they would then dominate the game.

Seriously, I do believe GH is needed for Clan UAC because they would be excessively powerful without... yay for TT Powercreep!

Edited by Prosperity Park, 19 May 2016 - 09:37 AM.

[Mechteric]

I can't wait for Ghost Heat to be abolished, there's just better ways to deal with limiting weapons

[Metus regem]

Prosperity Park, on 19 May 2016 - 09:29 AM, said:

Hey, I would love the removal of GH from AC/20 and UACs... because I love ballistics and they would then dominate the game.

Doubtful, in terms of investment requirement, Lasers are much more effiecent in terms of damage / tonnage / crit investment... Not to mention they require less brain power as they are hit-scan.

While cooler running, Dakka in MWO is hamstrung by the RoF and ammo requirements to get through a match, look at a UAC/5 it takes 3t of ammo for it to maybe not run out of ammo in a match, meaning for the IS it is a 12t and 8 crit (10t and 6 crit for clans) investment for a 5 damage weapon (10 on a double tap)... take an ERLL as the laser counter part to it, more damage, about the same range, and hotter yes, but with 10 DHS (found on all engines 250 and up) is heat neutral, with out quirks, so a 5t (perhaps 10t with nothing but external heat sinks) and 2 - 17 crits for a laser that out performs it not to mention not needing ammo and not having to account for travel time on the rounds...

What I would like to see is some form of balance between ballistics (maybe no GH on the larger AC's...) vs lasers.