121 replies to this topic

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

SRMs are meant to be dumbfire missiles. Get close to the target and shoot them in the face. Adding a lockon will just increase the weight usage. If you want the lockon, well that's why Streaks exist.

The real issue here is that Streaks only come in 2s and you can't realistically stack them up.

[The Basilisk]

Since no Mechwarrior computergame is considdered canon the question is missguiding.

I'm now talking from a BT-TT point of view.

I don't remember basic SRMs to have a 'lock' but they have a guidance system of some kind.
It is stated that standart SRM lack a sophisticated guidance system but its not stated that they don't have one.
Also it is described in some BT novels that the firering mech did aquire a target.
I imagine them as some kind of very fast torpedos. Fed with lead angle and distance until they are fired.
Or maybe radiocontrolled from the mechs target computer.
Also there are amunition types with autonomous guidance systems like heat seeking, MR seeking, artemis IV FCS warheads, and NARC following warheads.
Since SSRM have their own target aquisition gear, they are incompatible with any kind of other FCS gear. But multiple SSRM launcher in one Mech can be interlocked. So its possible to target and fire them at once.

Edited by The Basilisk, 29 September 2012 - 03:42 PM.

[Koniving]

It is pretty clear that some people have not played Mechwarrior 2. SRMs in MW2 did not lock on. Did they have a guidance system? Very minor if any, as they only curved slightly (which I don't think is tangible as guidance as typically an MW2 player is running; the curve may simply be a change of perspective).

I always went with Streak SRMs when I realized that they locked on, as it made fighting aerotech fighters much easier. After all when using standard SRMs, I could never hit them even when they were coming right at me. With the streak SRMs, it didn't matter; once I locked on they were just waiting to die.

MW 4 is not the only one with some things that were wrong. MW 3 had a different game company develop it, and some things were changed. A few for the better (the storyline, 'lasers'), some for the worse (some mistaken canon). MW4, unfortunately, was a cluster-(you know the word). Although one of the few MW4 ever had right was the SRM and Streak SRMs in terms of guidance.

"Battletech" and "Mechwarrior 3050" also had Arrow VI SRMs, which were non-guidance short range missiles. Though I would hardly count that game as fitting with other MW games.

Here is the lore about the Streak SRM versus SRM.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Streak_SRM (Source)

[color=#000000]Unlike a standard SRM whose shotgun effect may result in some misses and some hits (Note: Shotgun effect -- spread and hope to hit), Streak guidance gives the lighter launchers the effective average firepower of the heavier and more wasteful SRM systems, but with considerably less variation in damage effects. The only disadvantages are that Streak launchers are incompatible with other missile target acquisition technologies such as the [/color]Artemis IV FCS[color=#000000] and [/color]Narc Missile Beacon[color=#000000], their specialized ammunition is much more expensive, and some users are willing to accept partial hits rather than not be able to fire on demand.[/color]

Edited by Koniving, 29 September 2012 - 04:55 PM.

[Scytale]

SRMs are not, in canon, dumbfire missiles - sarna:

Quote

[color=#000000]The [/color]Streak Missile Launcher[color=#000000] is a specialized version of the standard [/color]Short Range Missile[color=#000000] launcher which withholds fire until it receives a solid lock ensuring all missiles will hit...[/color]
[color=#000000]This system is designed to guarantee a hit against any target onto which the pilot can get a lock, a special feature of this system preventing the weapon from firing at a target when there is no lock-on, saving ammunition by preventing shots that would miss anyway.[/color][color=#000000]

[/color]


The special of the streak is not that it locks on, but that it withholds fire until solid lock is achieved. This implies that regular SRMs have lock, or at least guided in some sense.

SRMs are regarded by sarna to be direct-fire, but it says nothing about dumbfire.

Also, to re-state what has been said many times, the computer games are not considered canon.

Edited by Scytale, 29 September 2012 - 06:49 PM.

[SMDMadCow]

SRMs are direct trajectory missiles.
Streaks contain a targeting device that prevents the missile from launching unitl it has locked onto a target, at which point it automatically hits.

per the BattleTech Master Rules, page 129.

[Scytale]

SMDMadCow, on 29 September 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

SRMs are direct trajectory missiles.
Streaks contain a targeting device that prevents the missile from launching unitl it has locked onto a target, at which point it automatically hits.

per the BattleTech Master Rules, page 129.

The quibbling isn't so much whether SRMs are direct-trajectory/direct-fire, but *guided*~

[SMDMadCow]

Scytale, on 30 September 2012 - 02:31 AM, said:

The quibbling isn't so much whether SRMs are direct-trajectory/direct-fire, but *guided*~

The answer is "No". Unless you're useing Artemis IV or a Narc pod to guide the specialty SRM ammo designed to work with them.

[DocBach]

Streaks are suppose to be guided, and have a safety mechanism which doesn't allow them to fire without achieving a lock.

Non-Streaks are described in many ways, but the way that they were implemented in the board game with a to hit roll and then a missile hit roll which was very random and inconsistent makes me think MWO got how they should be spot on.

[Tennex]

nerd rage

[Scytale]

SMDMadCow, on 30 September 2012 - 07:22 AM, said:

The answer is "No". Unless you're useing Artemis IV or a Narc pod to guide the specialty SRM ammo designed to work with them.

Do you have source?
I'm genuinely interested in figuring this out~

[SMDMadCow]

Scytale, on 30 September 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

Do you have source?
I'm genuinely interested in figuring this out~

Battle Tech Master Rules, page 129.

[PLUT0NIUM235]

first point is people need to understand the militaristic definition of the word 'missile', a missile in armed forces is a guided munition, an non-guided or 'dumb-fire' munition is a rocket. so from a definition standpoint, the Short Range Missile launcher fires short ranged, guided munitions. that right there is the death of the debate, if its a missile, its guided, if its not guided, its a rocket, not a missile.

[SMDMadCow]

PLUT0NIUM235, on 30 September 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

first point is people need to understand the militaristic definition of the word 'missile', a missile in armed forces is a guided munition, an non-guided or 'dumb-fire' munition is a rocket. so from a definition standpoint, the Short Range Missile launcher fires short ranged, guided munitions. that right there is the death of the debate, if its a missile, its guided, if its not guided, its a rocket, not a missile.

The people who worte the rules for BattleTech, are not military writers. Dont try to connect ANYTHING real world with BattleTech rules/lore, yo uwill only hurt your head.

[Seth]

In Battletech, missiles reload and rockets don't. The MRMs are described as lacking a guidance system, unlike short range and long range missiles, and suffer a to-hit penalty because as their dumb fire nature. Streak guidance systems will prevent missiles from firing unless they are guaranteed to hit.

[Scytale]

SMDMadCow, on 30 September 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

Battle Tech Master Rules, page 129.

I really don't mean to be a pain, and ignore me if I am, but do you have the direct quote?

[SMDMadCow]

Scytale, on 01 October 2012 - 05:10 AM, said:

I really don't mean to be a pain, and ignore me if I am, but do you have the direct quote?

I can gey both entries from the book for you when i get home from work.

[Solis Obscuri]

SRMs have never been dumb-fire, unless they were Dead-Fire.

In which case, they would get both +1 to damage but worse cluster-hit rolls.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

PLUT0NIUM235, on 30 September 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

first point is people need to understand the militaristic definition of the word 'missile', a missile in armed forces is a guided munition, an non-guided or 'dumb-fire' munition is a rocket. so from a definition standpoint, the Short Range Missile launcher fires short ranged, guided munitions. that right there is the death of the debate, if its a missile, its guided, if its not guided, its a rocket, not a missile.

One problem with your lesson; this isn't real life. It's a video game about Mechs in a distant future. You can quote real world military definitions all you like... but SRMs are still going to be non-guided. The best point you're able to make here is that the name should be changed. But I don't think that's what you were going for. But hey, why stop here? You do know that AC stands for "Auto-Cannon" right? But ACs don't fire automatically nor track targets either. I wonder what irrelevant bull you'd pull out for the word "Gauss".

Edited by Bluten, 01 October 2012 - 12:58 PM.

[Scytale]

SMDMadCow, on 01 October 2012 - 06:02 AM, said:

I can gey both entries from the book for you when i get home from work.

Thanks =)

[SMDMadCow]

Scytale, on 01 October 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

Thanks =)

Ok, here we go:

Quote

MISSILE LAUNCHERS
Missile launchers are devices used to deliver self-propelled and self-guided munitions to inflict damage on a target

SHORT-RANGE MISSILES
SRMs are direct-trajectory missiles with high-explosive or armor-piercing explosive warheads. They are accurate only at ranges under 3oo meters but are more powerful than LRMS

ARTEMIS IV
This fire control system improves the accuracy of standard missile launchers. Mounted in a dome near the launcher, the Artemis locks onto a target, illuminates it with an infrared beam and fires a spread of missiles. The system provides constat course correction data to the missiles in flight using a tight beam microwave communications link, which increases the number of missiles that hit the target.
Artemis can only be mounted on normal missile launchers; it cannot be used with streak SRMs, Narc missile beacon or any kind of special munitions unless those munitions specifically allow it.
Ammunition - Artemis uses special missiles that are identical to standard misiles for all game purposes except that they cost twice as much. If the launcher is loaded with normal ammo, it may still be used but functions asa normal launcher.

NARC
fires special homing beacons, called pods, mounted on a magnetic head. If a beacon hits its target, the pod broadcasts a homing signal for any friendly missile systems equipped to receive Narc transmissions.The Narc system is superior to the Artemis in that the signal lock cannot be broken once established, the beacon is attached to the target and cannot be destoyed.
Missiles capable of homing in on the beacon cost twice as much as standard missiles because they carry special guidance links.

I actually missed that first part on my first read about the blanket missile launcher statement. But it could either mean the standard SRM has guidance OR the launcher itself is capable of firing specialty guided SRMs such as the Artemis / Narc equipped missiles.
I believe the latter is the effective ruling as the SRM entry states that they are only direct-trajectory weapons.

[Starship Troopers]
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