13 replies to this topic

[4ries]

Greetings mechwarriors.

I am thinking its about time to buy me my next three mechs to play around with.
At first I was playing with the idea of buying an assault mech like the Mauler (thats because the Mauler was the first assault mech I could get in MW4 Vengeance as in Mercs... And it doesnt look terrible...).
But after playing around in the mechlab with the Mauler I kinda decided against it. Partly because assault mechs have a particular role on the battlefield.

After I decided not to get an assault mech I went ahead and bought me the 3 urbanmechs which have given me alot of fun. My urbies are all elited and I am now working on getting that additional module slot that I will probably never gonna use. Right now I am working on my R63; I have mastered my R60L already and the next one will be my R60.

Anyway, back on topic, since I am not going assault I was thinking about getting another heavy mech. I already have the Quickdraws with the 4H (the lrm one) being my favourite.

I want all three weapon systems in/on my mech. ballistic, missile and laser weapons.
Already looked at 2 chassis and I am kinda torn between them.

These two are the Cataphract and the IS Orion.

Now, and is kinda subjective but what mech could be more fun to play? Cataphract of Orion? To be honest I am leaning towards the Orion. There is only a 5 ton difference between those two... Also I already have kinda a configuration for the Orion M. But they arent cheap going for just under 10 mil. c-bills so if I make a mistake it'll be an expensive one. Though I have I dont know 24 million c-bills at the moment...?

I would like to put 2 ac2's on that Orion... Seems like fun to me...

Please advice.

[Leone]

Personally, I enjoy the Cataphract more'n the Orion, mostly due to the hitboxes and the build restraints on the Orions.

Now, this is not to say I've not had fun with my Orions, I have. Just, I've had more fun with my 'Phracts. But then,I love ballistics and Brawling, so keep that in mind.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 31 May 2016 - 11:34 PM.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Mixing ballistics, lasers and missiles is rarely a good idea, unless one of those weapons is a backup.

That said, maybe look at the Timber Wolf or Ebon Jaguar.
For IS the Warhammer comes to mind.

[SnagaDance]

Coming back to your original look at Assaults, the Orion is often dubbed the 'mini-Atlas' due to it's weapon mix. And the Atlas is a good Assault brawler Even though it's old it can still take down brand spanking new Kodiaks, just saying.

With an Atlas it's all about having one big gun, or sometimes 2 smaller ones in the right torso, then missiles in the left torso (SRMs preferred for good brawling, an Atlas shouldn't be used as a missile boat, it's wasting its potential, there are other Assaults that are far better at being a missile boat), topped of with some energy support weapons.

Both the D-DC (ECM) and S (max missiles) versions are totally solid. The other versions all lack a bit in comparison but are mostly still good (I personally bought the worst of them during a 50% C-bill mech sale, the K, just because I wanted that XL300 for another mech. never XL your Atlas, it's a quick death sentence).

The basic 300 engine is a good engine for the Atlas though for extra mobility a 325 or even 350 standard may be preferred, especially when playing with the more competitive crowd. Double Heatsinks are a must of course but that's a given for almost 99% of the mechs that don't have those, so it's not too expensive to fit them out compared to their base price.

Might be the mech to get you into Assaults eh? *wink-wink* *nudge-nudge*

[Koniving]

Orion. Until there's something done with the hitboxes of the Cataphract to make them more akin to other mechs, they are absolutely butchered by laser meta. They did great in the projectile metas but their CT is 1.7 times as wide as either ST, and quite a bit longer. Even the Awesome has a significantly thinner center torso.

Cataphracts were fine up until all other mechs got significant changes to their hitboxes. The Cataphracts got the short end of the stick, the side torsos were shrunk to not include shoulders, making arms easier to destroy. The center torso had a bikini done to its pelvis, making legs easier to destroy (which was already a problem). The center torso was not reduced and the side torsos were not expanded inward (which would have reduced the center torso). Thus in the end, you have a center torso wider than all three torsos on a Trebuchet.

Orions as mentioned above are 'lighter' Atlases with just as much firepower but a little less room for heatsinks and ammo. They run great with standard engines increasing their survivability significantly. They are also fast for their engine sizes.

Edited by Koniving, 01 June 2016 - 03:23 AM.

[4ries]

Well, as I said in my OP I have the 3 urbanmechs... Allthough they are light mechs @ 30tons, with the stock engine they are even slower then the slowest assault lol.
What is my point? The urbanmech has teached me a little on positioning because I didnt use the allmighty xl180 in my urbies...

I have 2 urbies with an xl145 (speedtweak = 84.3 or something) and one with an xl120 (speedtweak = 74.8 I think)... So they arent the fastest lights around so you have to be a bit more carefull of where and when to engage but that is part of the urbie fun; especially with my chosen weapons on my urbies (ac2 and 3 medium lasers...).

So, maybe, perhaps I should consider going assault yet instead of heavy... And that Mauler still looks promising too. I also dont want an assault that will be focussed the second the enemy team sees you. AND I try to find mechs that arent being used that much aswell... Yes, I am a strange person at times.

And yes, I also know that you should choose a mech that specializes in a certain role. Being a generalist isnt a good thing it seems... Well, I will certainly try and debunk that. If I can...

Damn you people... I asked you for advice on 2 heavy mechs and now I am again thinking about buying an assault instead... Hehe.

PS: small note: I have sworn 'allegiance' to the Innersphere so i wont be piloting Clan Battle - or omnimechs.

Edit:
Ok, so i made this post while koniving had already made a reply. I didnt notice this until I saved my reply.

As I said i was leaning towards the IS Orion because that mech has all three weapon systems across its 3 or 4 variants. And it also looks not bad...
But, standard engines are almost mandatory for the Orion? Because i would put in an xl for some more weight saving to put in somewhat more or larger weapons and/or more ammo. Problem is xl's costs so much c-bills. And if I should buy the orion and like it I want the 2 other aswell. But my c-bills dont agree that much with me...

Ah yes... The neverending C-Bill grind of MWO...

Hmm... I think I will go with the Orion, and the first will be the ON1-M. I have a ton of weapons in my inventory that I can use so thats already c-bills saved...

Edited by 4ries, 01 June 2016 - 03:43 AM.

[Koniving]

Victors need love.
The 9S especially loves an LBX and AC/5 combination with three sets of missiles (I use Streaks, personally, to help deal with pesky lights and find weak spots; also chain fired it causes quite a bit of shake and blur to disorient the enemy in addition to the LBX and AC/5 combination). Back it with lasers.

[Rhavin]

Warhammer, they run anything a cataphract build (other than the ECM oxp variant) can only better.

I love my OXP cataphract though, it's a "moment" mech. At the right time , in the right place it can swing a match. I don't play it as much since the warhammer came out, but it's good for shenanigans. Warhammer hitboxes just make the cataphract obsolete unless you just have to have ecm for some reason.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

XL + Orion = bad time.
The only time I do that is on the VA, which I run as a Lurm boat.

[4ries]

Ok, so I have gotten my new mech and I chose the Innersphere Orion. To be precise the ON1-M. At the time of this posting I have gotten the basic skills.

Some observations though...:
* Even the Orion M with its stock xl is still slow as hell for a 75ton mech; 64.3 kph or something. putting in a bigger engine will result in less weapons overall though. So, you have to choose between firepower or speed. I think I chose firepower.
* Center torso: goddamn this mech gets cored so easily, partly because its so slow so it cant evade that fast. However with some good positioning you can get good results it seems.
* Side torso (more precisely the ballistic side torso...): The ballistic weapon should you choose to run with one gets destroyed so easily... I run with just a mere ac2 but of the 20 games so far I have played, about half or over half of those games I have lost my ac as the first weapon to go... That is so ridiculous. Its not even goddamn funny...!
* Also XL engines in general... This mech isnt really that xl friendly but with the CT being shot to hell fast it doesnt really matter. I am even thinking of putting an XL295 in my orion since I have one in my inventory. Speed decrease is minimal - going from 64.3 to 63-ish. And it would save me a whopping 0.5 ton...!!

Dont get me wrong, I am having fun with my Orion, but all these things are rather glaring. They are so noticeable that you cant ignore them. Anyway, I will keep playing these and I am already contemplating the next Orion I will get. Perhaps the ON1-K...

[Metus regem]

Well 4ries, 64km/h is very much average for IS 3025-3050 heavy mechs, even more so with standard engines. My Warhammers all run the standard 280's for survivability, just as my Riflemen run standard 250's (a .5t upgrade from the standard 240's)... Anyways, my point being 64km/h is fast enough to get you where you need to be in a heavy, while leaving enough free weight for weapons and equipment.

[4ries]

Lol perhaps in TT Battletech. But in mwo and the skill trees the faster you are the better... I can already imagine the speedtweak on my orions. Instead of 64 I will then go something like 68 or something? I forget how much speedtweak adds to your base speed. Isnt it 7.5%?

If it is, I just calculated it; then my speed would be 69,1225kph (69,1 in short...).

Oh, and another thing about mech's speed...: there are some assault mechs that go just as fast as heavy mechs. That is around the 70 kph mark while still they can carry more guns. That is a bit over the top to be honest. I dont know how it works in Battletech or TT though. And if its not more guns they have, then they have atleast more armor...

Sorry if this is somewhat a rant... Its just logically speaking some things shouldnt be possbile. But yet here in mwo they are. But no one ever accused pgi of being logical right?

Greetings mechwarriors.

[invernomuto]

Cataphract was my first love and I'm still enjoying the chassis a lot with my Ilya:


image share

Edited by invernomuto, 03 June 2016 - 09:59 AM.

[Metus regem]

4ries, on 03 June 2016 - 09:32 AM, said:

Lol perhaps in TT Battletech. But in mwo and the skill trees the faster you are the better... I can already imagine the speedtweak on my orions. Instead of 64 I will then go something like 68 or something? I forget how much speedtweak adds to your base speed. Isnt it 7.5%?

If it is, I just calculated it; then my speed would be 69,1225kph (69,1 in short...).

Oh, and another thing about mech's speed...: there are some assault mechs that go just as fast as heavy mechs. That is around the 70 kph mark while still they can carry more guns. That is a bit over the top to be honest. I dont know how it works in Battletech or TT though. And if its not more guns they have, then they have atleast more armor...

Sorry if this is somewhat a rant... Its just logically speaking some things shouldnt be possbile. But yet here in mwo they are. But no one ever accused pgi of being logical right?

Greetings mechwarriors.

Well I can say, is that my WHM-6R(s) has proven to be fast enough to get where she needs to be with the rest of the team, and provide enough fire support to more than pull my weight. I average 4KMDD, with 3 solo kills for 550 damage a match, with her. Now don't get me wrong, speed is an important factor on some mechs, lights and mediums with out question, but 64km/h is perfectly acceptable for an IS heavy, yet for Clan heavies, 87km/h is average, this is due to the Clan XL engine not being blown out on ST loss, letting them push for faster speeds while keeping a respectable amount of fire power.

And you are right, but those Assault mechs that are pushing fast speeds, are often giving something up, like fire power. The Gargoyle is a prime example of this, 87-ish KM/h but just under 20t for weapons and heat sinks. Compare this to a Battlemaser BLR-1G with DHS and Endo steel upgrades, pushing a standard 340, letting it reach a speed of 69km/h it has 30t for weapons, ammo and heat sinks, change it to a 340xl and you have almost 44t for weapons, ammo and equipment, while retaining the speed of an IS heavy.