16 replies to this topic

[Damien Tokala]

Honestly the timberwolf is what I would consider the benchmark that all mechs should aspire to be.

That being said, the Kodiak falls short on many levels. It is a cumbersome mech, and even though it caries a large amount of heatsinks, they are hardly enough to manage the firepower coming out.

It has a very small twist radius by timberwolf standards, only made acceptable by the arms massive flexibility. This is the bane of the Kdk3. It has a dead center lock for its most powerful weapons. Fast mechs will have no problem causing a kodiak pilot a great deal of stress.

and while a single variant is fast, remember, that is ONE mech, and it is a HERO mech.

It carries an amazing compliment of weapons, however, once again, only one mech has been able to utterly wreck targets, and that it the Kdk3.

However we have seen this before. The dire wolf can mount the same UAC build, and dish out the same level of damage. We have lived this long with the dire wolf having such capabilities.

As for speed? Well, the executioner carries MASC as well, and the warhawk shares identical base speeds (not counting spirit bear on this) and they bear no complaints.

The issue is, the serious issue, is we have an EXCESS of mechs on the field with assault level firepower. It is not the Kodiak that is to blame, it's the fact that we have up to 8 Kodiaks per team!

[Random Carnage]

Damien Tokala, on 22 May 2016 - 03:14 AM, said:

...and they bear no complaints.

I see what you did bear...erm...there...

[Khobai]

Quote

The issue is, the serious issue, is we have an EXCESS of mechs on the field with assault level firepower.

The issue is the same as its always been. Allowing precise aiming and pinpoint convergence completely breaks the armor system that was designed for random hit locations. Which results in TTK plummeting to pathetic levels.

That and the fact Paul is bearly koalafied to balance this game.

Edited by Khobai, 22 May 2016 - 03:27 AM.

[Damien Tokala]

Khobai, on 22 May 2016 - 03:23 AM, said:

The issue is the same as its always been. Allowing precise aiming and pinpoint convergence completely breaks the armor system that was designed for random hit locations. Which results in TTK plummeting to pathetic levels.

The "convergence" argument is an entirely different subject. The problem am referring to, is people crying overpower because matchmaker unleashed a zoo, rather than 3/3/3/3 like it should always be.

[Khobai]

They tried 3/3/3/3 once before

it resulted in queue times being super long because everyone had to wait for light pilots

removing 3/3/3/3 was one of the best things they did.

what pgi needs to learn is that they cant force people to play lights and mediums. the stick approach doesnt work. they need to try a carrot approach to making lights and mediums worth piloting.

[Damien Tokala]

Well, I should be more clear. They should make sure that both teams do not have 8 freaking bears with the dps of a knife wielding Kung fu master on Crack.

[vibrant]

Khobai, on 22 May 2016 - 03:30 AM, said:

They tried 3/3/3/3 once before

it resulted in queue times being super long because everyone had to wait for light pilots

removing 3/3/3/3 was one of the best things they did.

what pgi needs to learn is that they cant force people to play lights and mediums. the stick approach doesnt work. they need to try a carrot approach to making lights and mediums worth piloting.

Nod. I love my cheetahs, however the game seems to be intentionally favouring heavier mechs with more firepower or staying power. Scores, ratings, and cbill earnings are almost all a result of damage inflicted. When I'm grinding for cbills for modules and mechs, I feel pushed to jump on a heavy or assault for more reliable damage output.

[Lykaon]

So your first point is that a Kodiak isn't a Timberwolf? well yeah obviously.

Next point is what? only one Kodiak is fast? or did you mean faster than the other Kodiaks because it has MASC because no matter how you slice it a 100 ton mech with a top speed of just shy of 70kph is fast for it's weight class. Then we add in that the Kodiak uses a clan XL to get this speed and we have a no contest on what mech has high speed with combat durability in the 100 ton range. The ONLY other 100 ton mech that can do this is the Boar's Head Atlas and it's widely accepted that an XL engine Atlas is sub optimal at best.

Direwolf eh? can the Direwolf mount the same payload of UACs and move at nearly 70KPH? Higher speed directly translates into more opertunity to use the firepower it has. The Higher speed also means ease of redeployment if the mech ends up out of place and not in a terribly useful possition.The added versitility of the near 70KPH top speed is being hugely undervalued.

And then there is the hardpoint placements.The Kodiak does have higher mounts alowing for better ridgeline poking and once again coupled with the better mobility of the 400XL the Kodiak is just better at repossitioning than a Direwolf.

So no we have not been living with a 69.7 kph 100 ton mech with high torso mounted ballisitc hardpoints.We have been living with a very slow moving 52.2 kph 100 ton mech with lower slung weapon hardpoints that are less than ideal for ridge poking.

"Only one mech has been able to utterly wreck targets" and this is a point to be made why? if there are multiple Kodiaks on the field there is no mechanism in place to limit what variants those would be. And we all know that after the Kodiaks have been mastered the two we will be seeing the vast majority of the time is the Kodiak 3 and Spirit Bear no question. This is like saying an Oxide is not a powerful mech because the Jenner K is subpar.

Executioner? can't put quad UAC10s on that and the Executioner has 25 (give or take) tons of payload compared to a Kodiaks 42.5 tons (give or take)

Warhawk well let's look here...around 32 tons of payload with a mx capacity of a whopping two ballistic hardpoints...so not even close to a Kodiak 3 and also 15 tons lighters meaning lower armor and structure. So now we know an apple doesn't taste like an orange.

Well you did close with a valid if not obvious observation. 4+ kodiaks per side is limiting the actual comparative data players can observe. If half of the opfor is Kodiaks there is already a significant chance that (simply by proximity) the mech that will kill yours will be a Kodiak.


My actual opinions...

Don't have a Kodiak havn't piloted one can't say how well they perform.

I have faced several Kodiaks (like everyone has this week) and they seem to be effective and dangerous mechs to be taken seriously (in particular KDK 3s and Spirit Bears).

It is also way way early to say anything is DOA or OP'ed.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Khobai, on 22 May 2016 - 03:30 AM, said:

They tried 3/3/3/3 once before

it resulted in queue times being super long because everyone had to wait for light pilots

removing 3/3/3/3 was one of the best things they did.

what pgi needs to learn is that they cant force people to play lights and mediums. the stick approach doesnt work. they need to try a carrot approach to making lights and mediums worth piloting.

But there are lights and mediums worth piloting...

[TheSilken]

Lykaon, on 22 May 2016 - 03:52 AM, said:

Executioner? can't put quad UAC10s on that and the Executioner has 25 (give or take) tons of payload compared to a Kodiaks 42.5 tons (give or take)

Kodiak has 45.5 tons but can increase that to 63.5 tons at Dire Wolf speeds. Not providing an opinion as to the mech's ability just some facts.

[Khobai]

Quote

But there are lights and mediums worth piloting...

perhaps but theres still not enough light and medium pilots to balance the queue evenly between all four weight classes

lights and mediums need more incentive to get played. In order to incentivize players to use lights and mediums they need to be given a crucial role in the game which they currently lack. part of that crucial role would be sensor warfare.

a large part of the problem is theres no proper implementation of sensor warfare. heavies and assaults should virtually be blind without lights and mediums to spot for them. also lights and mediums should be able to screw with enemy sensors by spoofing false radar contacts. and have a variety of other sensor warfare abilities.

Quote

Kodiak has 45.5 tons but can increase that to 63.5 tons at Dire Wolf speeds. Not providing an opinion as to the mech's ability just some facts.

Kodiak can take both endo and ferrofibrous unlike the direwhale. That makes it effectively a 108 ton mech. But it sacrifices 14 crit slots to do so.

Although it can then reinvest that extra tonnage into a bigger engine like a 375+ engine. By taking a 375+ engine over the direwhales 300 engine it effectively recovers 6-8 of the 14 lost crit slots.

So basically the Kodiak loses 6-8 crit slots compared to a direwhale. But in exchange it gains the speed of a an IS heavy mech (still slower than clan heavies though). Totally worth it.

But obviously that makes the Kodiak outright better than the Direwhale so theres an obvious balance issue there. IMO the direwhale should get structure quirks and the kodiak shouldnt get any structure quirks at all (but its CT hitbox should be reduced in size)

Edited by Khobai, 22 May 2016 - 04:17 AM.

[El Bandito]

Kodiak is not just for anyone. Most who piloted it, clearly had no idea how to do it right.

[Juodas Varnas]

El Bandito, on 22 May 2016 - 04:48 AM, said:

Kodiak is not just for anyone. Most who piloted it, clearly had no idea how to do it right.

Agreed.
Most Kodiaks i encountered never even tried to torso-twist. They just stare at you taking everything on the chin. Heck, even SRM+LBX Spirit Bears don't torso twist!
They have such great shield-arms and yet they don't use them.

It's like most of the people piloting Kodiaks right now, have never piloted an Assault Brawler before.

[El Bandito]

Juodas Varnas, on 22 May 2016 - 04:52 AM, said:

It's like most of the people piloting Kodiaks right now, have never piloted an Assault Brawler before.

I'm sure "some" of them had piloted Assault Brawler prior to the Kodiak, but they were simply too spoiled by the Atlas quirks.

Edited by El Bandito, 22 May 2016 - 05:03 AM.

[STEF_]

Khobai, on 22 May 2016 - 03:30 AM, said:

what pgi needs to learn is that they cant force people to play lights and mediums. the stick approach doesnt work. they need to try a carrot approach to making lights and mediums worth piloting.

Strange... I was sure to remember a "Lights are OP, nerf them" thread around here....

[Mechteric]

I'm taking this chance to drive my heavies, which I usually don't drive since their queue is always so high.


But we can be sure that the queues will return to normal within the next week or two. Most new mech releases when released solo instead of as a pack have had this effect.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 22 May 2016 - 05:21 AM.

[L3mming2]

Lykaon, on 22 May 2016 - 03:52 AM, said:

So your first point is that a Kodiak isn't a Timberwolf? well yeah obviously.

Next point is what? only one Kodiak is fast? or did you mean faster than the other Kodiaks because it has MASC because no matter how you slice it a 100 ton mech with a top speed of just shy of 70kph is fast for it's weight class. Then we add in that the Kodiak uses a clan XL to get this speed and we have a no contest on what mech has high speed with combat durability in the 100 ton range. The ONLY other 100 ton mech that can do this is the Boar's Head Atlas and it's widely accepted that an XL engine Atlas is sub optimal at best.

Direwolf eh? can the Direwolf mount the same payload of UACs and move at nearly 70KPH? Higher speed directly translates into more opertunity to use the firepower it has. The Higher speed also means ease of redeployment if the mech ends up out of place and not in a terribly useful possition.The added versitility of the near 70KPH top speed is being hugely undervalued.

And then there is the hardpoint placements.The Kodiak does have higher mounts alowing for better ridgeline poking and once again coupled with the better mobility of the 400XL the Kodiak is just better at repossitioning than a Direwolf.

So no we have not been living with a 69.7 kph 100 ton mech with high torso mounted ballisitc hardpoints.We have been living with a very slow moving 52.2 kph 100 ton mech with lower slung weapon hardpoints that are less than ideal for ridge poking.

"Only one mech has been able to utterly wreck targets" and this is a point to be made why? if there are multiple Kodiaks on the field there is no mechanism in place to limit what variants those would be. And we all know that after the Kodiaks have been mastered the two we will be seeing the vast majority of the time is the Kodiak 3 and Spirit Bear no question. This is like saying an Oxide is not a powerful mech because the Jenner K is subpar.

Executioner? can't put quad UAC10s on that and the Executioner has 25 (give or take) tons of payload compared to a Kodiaks 42.5 tons (give or take)

Warhawk well let's look here...around 32 tons of payload with a mx capacity of a whopping two ballistic hardpoints...so not even close to a Kodiak 3 and also 15 tons lighters meaning lower armor and structure. So now we know an apple doesn't taste like an orange.

Well you did close with a valid if not obvious observation. 4+ kodiaks per side is limiting the actual comparative data players can observe. If half of the opfor is Kodiaks there is already a significant chance that (simply by proximity) the mech that will kill yours will be a Kodiak.


My actual opinions...

Don't have a Kodiak havn't piloted one can't say how well they perform.

I have faced several Kodiaks (like everyone has this week) and they seem to be effective and dangerous mechs to be taken seriously (in particular KDK 3s and Spirit Bears).

It is also way way early to say anything is DOA or OP'ed.

a top tier assault thats faster as a KDK3 (no you cant put the xl400 in and run 4 uac10s in a good way) an has even better mounts

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8edcbf5feefee29

just saying...