47 replies to this topic

[Navid A1]

Anyone think that hardpoint inflation (2B per torso) was a bit too much on the KDK-3?

Hard point infalation and clan mechs is not really the norm.

Was there a reason for this?

[Steve Pryde]

Maybe Kodiak can borrow the Summoner some energie hardpoints?

[El Bandito]

To differentiate from the others? HBK-IIC for example was not supposed to have quad ballistics either.

[Navid A1]

El Bandito, on 23 May 2016 - 03:59 AM, said:

To differentiate from the others? HBK-IIC for example was not supposed to have quad ballistics either.

Not KDK-3

Its already distinct enough with 1B per torso... even 3B in total may have been better!

[2fast2stompy]

El Bandito, on 23 May 2016 - 03:59 AM, said:

To differentiate from the others? HBK-IIC for example was not supposed to have quad ballistics either.

TBH, HBK-IIC having 4 ballistic hardpoints doesn't actually change anything about the mech, since it doesn't actually make it stronger, it just lets you choose to deadside, which is arguably the worse decision since the mech is so squishy and can't shield with its arms.

Also, the extra hardpoints are beneath the original ones, not stacked high like the kodiak's.

And, most importantly, the kodiak has the tonnage to actually use the extra hardpoints to mount more firepower.

Edited by 2fast2stompy, 23 May 2016 - 04:20 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Navid A1, on 23 May 2016 - 03:44 AM, said:

Anyone think that hardpoint inflation (2B per torso) was a bit too much on the KDK-3?

Hard point infalation and clan mechs is not really the norm.

Was there a reason for this?

Last I checked pretty much all Clan Battlemechs got it, just not Omnimechs.

Usually they try to give some "balance" with hardpoints. KDK3 would be Summoner-esque with stock hardpoints.

Regardless... don't stand in front of it, and problem is usually solved.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 May 2016 - 04:23 AM.

[Navid A1]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2016 - 04:22 AM, said:

Last I checked pretty much all Clan Battlemechs got it, just not Omnimechs.

Usually they try to give some "balance" with hardpoints. KDK3 would be Summoner-esque with stock hardpoints.

Regardless... don't stand in front of it, and problem is usually solved.

I don't have a problem against it.
I just hate it when a variant just invalidates every other variant of a chassis... (i'm not a meta ***** you know)

[El Bandito]

Navid A1, on 23 May 2016 - 04:09 AM, said:

Not KDK-3

Its already distinct enough with 1B per torso... even 3B in total may have been better!

IMO 1B per torso is worse than 2B on one torso like that of Kodiak 4, due to the need to expose that big CT to fire all of the ballistics. Therefore Kodiak 3 needed something more.

If I can have dual AC10, or dual Gauss on one side of my Mauler I'd do it instantly, for greater corner peeking potential, but alas, IS AC10/Gauss is too bulky for that.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 May 2016 - 05:14 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Navid A1, on 23 May 2016 - 03:44 AM, said:

Anyone think that hardpoint inflation (2B per torso) was a bit too much on the KDK-3?

Hard point infalation and clan mechs is not really the norm.

Was there a reason for this?

Yes. It's a Battlemech. Battlemechs get inflation, Omnimechs don't.

Navid A1, on 23 May 2016 - 04:42 AM, said:

I don't have a problem against it.
I just hate it when a variant just invalidates every other variant of a chassis... (i'm not a meta ***** you know)

One always does, because one is always best. Sometimes, some really special times, two are reasonably great, but for Battlemechs in particular this is always the case.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Navid A1, on 23 May 2016 - 04:42 AM, said:

I don't have a problem against it.
I just hate it when a variant just invalidates every other variant of a chassis... (i'm not a meta ***** you know)

That says something about the balance of weapons more than the chassis. Ballistics have always been really important for clan assaults, because there are only so many energy weapons you can mount and still be remotely effective.

[Khobai]

Quote

Anyone think that hardpoint inflation (2B per torso) was a bit too much on the KDK-3?

no

[ImperialKnight]

cause PGI needs to sell mechs? I'll be perfectly honest that the KDK-3 is one of the big reason I plonked my money down within the week of the Kodiak preorder.

4B on a Clan Assault that can change engines? Sign me up! The 4B did come with a cost somewhat, the KDK-3 has less hardpoints than the other KDKs

In all seriousness, I think the KDK-3 can do without quirks. It's beast enough as is.

[Helsbane]

I usually toss money at any mech that can bring quad ballistics to the fight. I prefer bullets to beams any day. Aside from going a little faster and twisting a bit better, the Scare Bear doesn't bring anything to the fight the 'Whale hadn't already been capable of.

[Ultimax]

PGI has often (not always) inflated hardpoints for Battlemechs based on a single large (read AC 20) ballistic (for example, the DDC).

We had 6x Ballistics on the DWF that could already mount these loadouts, so there is precedent for this much clan dakka being tossed around. People just forgot about it as the DWF got multi-nerfed and went on the endangered mech list.

Edited by Ultimax, 23 May 2016 - 10:07 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 23 May 2016 - 06:34 AM, said:

Yes. It's a Battlemech. Battlemechs get inflation, Omnimechs don't.

One always does, because one is always best. Sometimes, some really special times, two are reasonably great, but for Battlemechs in particular this is always the case.

I find the KDKs to rank out as so:
1) KDK3 (great)
2) Spirit Bear (real good)
3) KDK4 (good)
4) KDK1 (good)
5) KDK5 (Mediocre)
6) KDK2 (sub par)

the 1 is underrated, because people want to make it a vomit mech, and as such push it into builds it really can't maximize. The 4 is another underrated Gem, that IMO is the most fun version, realyl love the hardpoint layout. Can't boat, so probably never be Meta Approved, but it's very solid. Spirit Bear is a Clan AS7-S analogue that trades toughness for mobility. More of a hit and run striker than toe to toe brawler. 3 is of course, very strong... if one overlooks being a huge fragile (for an assault mech) target, overrated mobility (it's still a 64 kph mech, not like we talking 80-90) with burst weapons, requiring it to have facetime to maximize results. At this roles, the MAL is better, and up close the AS7 will trash it.

The 5? Again, on simply can't maximize laservomit as optimum on a slower 100 ton chassis of questionable hitbox durability. It's capable of some decent builds, but is far from being impressive.

The 2? Weak hardpoints, big target.... JJs are just not worth their tonnage.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:

I find the KDKs to rank out as so:
1) KDK3 (great)
2) Spirit Bear (real good)
3) KDK4 (good)
4) KDK1 (good)
5) KDK5 (Mediocre)
6) KDK2 (sub par)

I agree with this for the most part, I don't agree that the 1 is better than the 5, but that's because I think the gauss vomit is the best build for it.

Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:

3 is of course, very strong... if one overlooks being a huge fragile (for an assault mech) target, overrated mobility (it's still a 64 kph mech, not like we talking 80-90) with burst weapons, requiring it to have facetime to maximize results. At this roles, the MAL is better, and up close the AS7 will trash it.

Just wanted to point out the 3 is capable of more than dakka, one could easily take a Goose/PPC build and actually win trades against a Mauler (it is actually a decent anti-Mauler mech).

Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:

The 2? Weak hardpoints, big target.... JJs are just not worth their tonnage.

I'd agree for the most part, but I did have some success using it as a jump brawler which is something unique for it (6 cSPLs, UAC20), it certainly isn't better than the Spirit Bear for most things, but it can be useful on maps where JJs are important (Crayon Network for example) and you want to brawl, very niche but that's expected these days for anything that sacrifices firepower for JJs, especially with assaults.

[2fast2stompy]

Helsbane, on 23 May 2016 - 09:59 AM, said:

Aside from going a little faster and twisting a bit better, the Scare Bear doesn't bring anything to the fight the 'Whale hadn't already been capable of.

Are you joking?

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 May 2016 - 10:16 AM, said:

I agree with this for the most part, I don't agree that the 1 is better than the 5, but that's because I think the gauss vomit is the best build for it.


Just wanted to point out the 3 is capable of more than dakka, one could easily take a Goose/PPC build and actually win trades against a Mauler (it is actually a decent anti-Mauler mech).


I'd agree for the most part, but I did have some success using it as a jump brawler which is something unique for it (6 cSPLs, UAC20), it certainly isn't better than the Spirit Bear for most things, but it can be useful on maps where JJs are important (Crayon Network for example) and you want to brawl, very niche but that's expected these days for anything that sacrifices firepower for JJs, especially with assaults.

I find the 5... unimpressive, personally, so I'm just going by my personal playstyle, whereas the 1 has enough hard point variety to make for a pretty versatile hitter. I'd like the 5 more if you could mount a PPC in the tip top energy hardpoint.

And yeah, I can see that build on the 3, but that's no the one getting the nancys all puckered, lol.

The 2, I get what you're saying but really Canyon is about the only map I find it remotely useful, and TBH, jumping assaults on that amp are still pretty lackluster IMO.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:

And yeah, I can see that build on the 3, but that's no the one getting the nancys all puckered, lol.

Maybe on the forums, but its the build I've gotten the most hackusations with .

Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:

I'd like the 5 more if you could mount a PPC in the tip top energy hardpoint.

If the 5 had 1B/1E in each side and all were high mounted, the 5 would not need quirks to be good, Goose/PPCs for days. I know that's not quite what you were suggesting, just you reminded me of a thought I had yesterday about this very thing.

Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:

The 2, I get what you're saying but really Canyon is about the only map I find it remotely useful, and TBH, jumping assaults on that amp are still pretty lackluster IMO.

Oh it isn't perfect, don't get me wrong, but there is a niche it can do somewhat decently, the real question is whether it does that build better than the Executioner in the same scenario.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 23 May 2016 - 11:14 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 May 2016 - 11:13 AM, said:

Maybe on the forums, but its the build I've gotten the most hackusations with .


If the 5 had 1B/1E in each side and all were high mounted, the 5 would not need quirks to be good, Goose/PPCs for days. I know that's not quite what you were suggesting, just you reminded me of a thought I had yesterday about this very thing.


Oh it isn't perfect, don't get me wrong, but there is a niche it can do somewhat decently, the real question is whether it does that build better than the Executioner in the same scenario.

Yeah, which IDK if it does. You can mount a high energy in the LT of the EXE, and use MASC to enhance the JJs. Easy to Gauss/PPC but I prefer 2xUAC5/ERPPC

but my normal EXE-PRIME is about as non Meta as it gets, so I'm no expert judge, either

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 May 2016 - 11:30 AM.