Why Kdk-3 Got Hardpoint Inflation?
#1
Posted 23 May 2016 - 03:44 AM
Hard point infalation and clan mechs is not really the norm.
Was there a reason for this?
#2
Posted 23 May 2016 - 03:51 AM
#3
Posted 23 May 2016 - 03:59 AM
#5
Posted 23 May 2016 - 04:20 AM
El Bandito, on 23 May 2016 - 03:59 AM, said:
TBH, HBK-IIC having 4 ballistic hardpoints doesn't actually change anything about the mech, since it doesn't actually make it stronger, it just lets you choose to deadside, which is arguably the worse decision since the mech is so squishy and can't shield with its arms.
Also, the extra hardpoints are beneath the original ones, not stacked high like the kodiak's.
And, most importantly, the kodiak has the tonnage to actually use the extra hardpoints to mount more firepower.
Edited by 2fast2stompy, 23 May 2016 - 04:20 AM.
#6
Posted 23 May 2016 - 04:22 AM
Navid A1, on 23 May 2016 - 03:44 AM, said:
Hard point infalation and clan mechs is not really the norm.
Was there a reason for this?
Last I checked pretty much all Clan Battlemechs got it, just not Omnimechs.
Usually they try to give some "balance" with hardpoints. KDK3 would be Summoner-esque with stock hardpoints.
Regardless... don't stand in front of it, and problem is usually solved.
Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 May 2016 - 04:23 AM.
#7
Posted 23 May 2016 - 04:42 AM
Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2016 - 04:22 AM, said:
Usually they try to give some "balance" with hardpoints. KDK3 would be Summoner-esque with stock hardpoints.
Regardless... don't stand in front of it, and problem is usually solved.
I don't have a problem against it.
I just hate it when a variant just invalidates every other variant of a chassis... (i'm not a meta ***** you know)
#8
Posted 23 May 2016 - 04:49 AM
Navid A1, on 23 May 2016 - 04:09 AM, said:
Its already distinct enough with 1B per torso... even 3B in total may have been better!
IMO 1B per torso is worse than 2B on one torso like that of Kodiak 4, due to the need to expose that big CT to fire all of the ballistics. Therefore Kodiak 3 needed something more.
If I can have dual AC10, or dual Gauss on one side of my Mauler I'd do it instantly, for greater corner peeking potential, but alas, IS AC10/Gauss is too bulky for that.
Edited by El Bandito, 23 May 2016 - 05:14 AM.
#9
Posted 23 May 2016 - 06:34 AM
Navid A1, on 23 May 2016 - 03:44 AM, said:
Hard point infalation and clan mechs is not really the norm.
Was there a reason for this?
Navid A1, on 23 May 2016 - 04:42 AM, said:
I don't have a problem against it.
I just hate it when a variant just invalidates every other variant of a chassis... (i'm not a meta ***** you know)
#10
Posted 23 May 2016 - 06:35 AM
Navid A1, on 23 May 2016 - 04:42 AM, said:
I don't have a problem against it.
I just hate it when a variant just invalidates every other variant of a chassis... (i'm not a meta ***** you know)
That says something about the balance of weapons more than the chassis. Ballistics have always been really important for clan assaults, because there are only so many energy weapons you can mount and still be remotely effective.
#11
Posted 23 May 2016 - 06:37 AM
Quote
no
#12
Posted 23 May 2016 - 06:39 AM
4B on a Clan Assault that can change engines? Sign me up! The 4B did come with a cost somewhat, the KDK-3 has less hardpoints than the other KDKs
In all seriousness, I think the KDK-3 can do without quirks. It's beast enough as is.
#13
Posted 23 May 2016 - 09:59 AM
#14
Posted 23 May 2016 - 10:06 AM
We had 6x Ballistics on the DWF that could already mount these loadouts, so there is precedent for this much clan dakka being tossed around. People just forgot about it as the DWF got multi-nerfed and went on the endangered mech list.
Edited by Ultimax, 23 May 2016 - 10:07 AM.
#15
Posted 23 May 2016 - 10:08 AM
Wintersdark, on 23 May 2016 - 06:34 AM, said:
One always does, because one is always best. Sometimes, some really special times, two are reasonably great, but for Battlemechs in particular this is always the case.
I find the KDKs to rank out as so:
1) KDK3 (great)
2) Spirit Bear (real good)
3) KDK4 (good)
4) KDK1 (good)
5) KDK5 (Mediocre)
6) KDK2 (sub par)
the 1 is underrated, because people want to make it a vomit mech, and as such push it into builds it really can't maximize. The 4 is another underrated Gem, that IMO is the most fun version, realyl love the hardpoint layout. Can't boat, so probably never be Meta Approved, but it's very solid. Spirit Bear is a Clan AS7-S analogue that trades toughness for mobility. More of a hit and run striker than toe to toe brawler. 3 is of course, very strong... if one overlooks being a huge fragile (for an assault mech) target, overrated mobility (it's still a 64 kph mech, not like we talking 80-90) with burst weapons, requiring it to have facetime to maximize results. At this roles, the MAL is better, and up close the AS7 will trash it.
The 5? Again, on simply can't maximize laservomit as optimum on a slower 100 ton chassis of questionable hitbox durability. It's capable of some decent builds, but is far from being impressive.
The 2? Weak hardpoints, big target.... JJs are just not worth their tonnage.
#16
Posted 23 May 2016 - 10:16 AM
Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:
1) KDK3 (great)
2) Spirit Bear (real good)
3) KDK4 (good)
4) KDK1 (good)
5) KDK5 (Mediocre)
6) KDK2 (sub par)
I agree with this for the most part, I don't agree that the 1 is better than the 5, but that's because I think the gauss vomit is the best build for it.
Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:
Just wanted to point out the 3 is capable of more than dakka, one could easily take a Goose/PPC build and actually win trades against a Mauler (it is actually a decent anti-Mauler mech).
Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:
I'd agree for the most part, but I did have some success using it as a jump brawler which is something unique for it (6 cSPLs, UAC20), it certainly isn't better than the Spirit Bear for most things, but it can be useful on maps where JJs are important (Crayon Network for example) and you want to brawl, very niche but that's expected these days for anything that sacrifices firepower for JJs, especially with assaults.
#18
Posted 23 May 2016 - 11:08 AM
Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 May 2016 - 10:16 AM, said:
Just wanted to point out the 3 is capable of more than dakka, one could easily take a Goose/PPC build and actually win trades against a Mauler (it is actually a decent anti-Mauler mech).
I'd agree for the most part, but I did have some success using it as a jump brawler which is something unique for it (6 cSPLs, UAC20), it certainly isn't better than the Spirit Bear for most things, but it can be useful on maps where JJs are important (Crayon Network for example) and you want to brawl, very niche but that's expected these days for anything that sacrifices firepower for JJs, especially with assaults.
I find the 5... unimpressive, personally, so I'm just going by my personal playstyle, whereas the 1 has enough hard point variety to make for a pretty versatile hitter. I'd like the 5 more if you could mount a PPC in the tip top energy hardpoint.
And yeah, I can see that build on the 3, but that's no the one getting the nancys all puckered, lol.
The 2, I get what you're saying but really Canyon is about the only map I find it remotely useful, and TBH, jumping assaults on that amp are still pretty lackluster IMO.
#19
Posted 23 May 2016 - 11:13 AM
Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:
Maybe on the forums, but its the build I've gotten the most hackusations with .
Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:
If the 5 had 1B/1E in each side and all were high mounted, the 5 would not need quirks to be good, Goose/PPCs for days. I know that's not quite what you were suggesting, just you reminded me of a thought I had yesterday about this very thing.
Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:
Oh it isn't perfect, don't get me wrong, but there is a niche it can do somewhat decently, the real question is whether it does that build better than the Executioner in the same scenario.
Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 23 May 2016 - 11:14 AM.
#20
Posted 23 May 2016 - 11:28 AM
Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 May 2016 - 11:13 AM, said:
If the 5 had 1B/1E in each side and all were high mounted, the 5 would not need quirks to be good, Goose/PPCs for days. I know that's not quite what you were suggesting, just you reminded me of a thought I had yesterday about this very thing.
Oh it isn't perfect, don't get me wrong, but there is a niche it can do somewhat decently, the real question is whether it does that build better than the Executioner in the same scenario.
Yeah, which IDK if it does. You can mount a high energy in the LT of the EXE, and use MASC to enhance the JJs. Easy to Gauss/PPC but I prefer 2xUAC5/ERPPC
but my normal EXE-PRIME is about as non Meta as it gets, so I'm no expert judge, either
Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 May 2016 - 11:30 AM.
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