75 replies to this topic

[Ghogiel]

What good is a T0 when you will mostly still be filler in lower tier games?

[wanderer]

They don't need a tier zero.

They need to make having a T1, or T2 even require significant exceptional effort to maintain, while T3 requires being able to regularly contribute and the people who hit T3+ now simply by being in enough winning games with minimal match scores never, never, ever get out of the T4-5 ranks.

That one can be exactly as bad as you were when the game T5'd you and still end up in T1 over time is the mocking laughter of Paul, answering our request for a decent matchmaker.

[dario03]

wanderer, on 25 May 2016 - 12:03 PM, said:

They don't need a tier zero.

They need to make having a T1, or T2 even require significant exceptional effort to maintain, while T3 requires being able to regularly contribute and the people who hit T3+ now simply by being in enough winning games with minimal match scores never, never, ever get out of the T4-5 ranks.

That one can be exactly as bad as you were when the game T5'd you and still end up in T1 over time is the mocking laughter of Paul, answering our request for a decent matchmaker.

Well they would also need a decent bit of a player base boost. Already end up waiting ~10 minutes for matches during NA primetime sometimes, and playing during Oceanic prime time is even worse. And even after the long waits you still end up in matches where one team ends up with ~6 players doing sub 200.

[Coolant]

OP eliteism to the nth degree

[Malorish]

Jimmy Page, on 25 May 2016 - 02:01 AM, said:

This latest powercreep mech release has quite possibly destroyed the game. We now have terrabads playing 100 ton mechs and hiding. It should be used to PUSH with it's speed. Can we have a tier 0, with a 20k game minimum? These players know what they are doing and do not require instructions. We play and have fun. It is simply not worth playing with mouth breathers in the other tiers. let them derp in their own terrabad queue please PGI.

This community is so confusing. We want to call anyone who doesn't hug cover and play peekaboo a terribad noob. But we also want to call anyone doesn't push (likely to their death) the same.

There's a reason nobody pushes much anymore - unless you significantly outnumber the enemy, you'll get vaporized in just a couple seconds even in a 100-ton assault, and even torso twisting your *** off.

The problem really isn't the players (though it makes the tryhards feel better about their place in the universe by chanting "L2P"). The problem is that the mechs are all essentially glass cannons.

If you like Alphastrike warrior that doesn't correspond to any Battletech lore or the tabletop, where mechs can put out 80 pt Alphas at ridiculous range and vaporize each other, then this is the game for you. It emphasizes pokefests from range, followed by a short brawl (well - more like a rollover) once one side has a significant advantage.

If you want a game that emphasizes tactics, pushes, and meaningful skill you'd need to bring the survivability of the mechs way the hell up. That means nerfing damage output in a big way (or massively increasing armor/structure, really the same thing).

So stop getting mad at people for playing the game the way it's designed to be played, and start demanding a different game.

[dario03]

Malorish, on 25 May 2016 - 04:38 PM, said:

This community is so confusing. We want to call anyone who doesn't hug cover and play peekaboo a terribad noob. But we also want to call anyone doesn't push (likely to their death) the same.

There's a reason nobody pushes much anymore - unless you significantly outnumber the enemy, you'll get vaporized in just a couple seconds even in a 100-ton assault, and even torso twisting your *** off.

The problem really isn't the players (though it makes the tryhards feel better about their place in the universe by chanting "L2P"). The problem is that the mechs are all essentially glass cannons.

If you like Alphastrike warrior that doesn't correspond to any Battletech lore or the tabletop, where mechs can put out 80 pt Alphas at ridiculous range and vaporize each other, then this is the game for you. It emphasizes pokefests from range, followed by a short brawl (well - more like a rollover) once one side has a significant advantage.

If you want a game that emphasizes tactics, pushes, and meaningful skill you'd need to bring the survivability of the mechs way the hell up. That means nerfing damage output in a big way (or massively increasing armor/structure, really the same thing).

So stop getting mad at people for playing the game the way it's designed to be played, and start demanding a different game.

Being able to out poke opponents at range is a skill and requires tactics. Its different tactics and skills than pushing but is still tactics and skill.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Jimmy Page, on 25 May 2016 - 02:01 AM, said:

This latest powercreep mech release has quite possibly destroyed the game. We now have terrabads playing 100 ton mechs and hiding. It should be used to PUSH with it's speed. Can we have a tier 0, with a 20k game minimum? These players know what they are doing and do not require instructions. We play and have fun. It is simply not worth playing with mouth breathers in the other tiers. let them derp in their own terrabad queue please PGI.

Translation: I am better than almost all of you, and hate being in your presence.

My retort involves you treating yourself to your own special brand of personal stimulation, as your elitist and insulting attitude is toxic. Go play a game where you only play with people exactly like you, such as staring into a mirror.

[SteelBruiser]

dario03, on 25 May 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

Well they would also need a decent bit of a player base boost. Already end up waiting ~10 minutes for matches during NA primetime sometimes, and playing during Oceanic prime time is even worse. And even after the long waits you still end up in matches where one team ends up with ~6 players doing sub 200.

And I'm sure players with the OP's elitist attitude calling new players names like mouth breathers and terribads, and whining about possibly having to play along side of them is going to go a long way towards enticing folks to stay long enough to boost up that player base. Of course, one day after chasing all the lower life forms from the game, OP and friends will get their wish and have their private game club...for maybe a day or so and then it will end.

Someone not too long ago posted a thread asking how we can keep new players in the game. My suggestion is don't let them read any part of the forum except the New Player help and Announcements until they hit Tier 3. It doesn't help the cause to let them know how the upper Tiers really feel about them.

Edited by SteelBruiser, 25 May 2016 - 08:27 PM.

[Straker XL]

Yah it's time to add another tier. Everything runs so much smoother for everyone involved when the skill levels are close. Match search times have been lower than ever, mech release day notwithstanding. I was thinking they could program MM to tighten or loosen up based on the amount of players on at a given time.

I like what wanderer said, but I think they should hustle something out as a band aid solution in the meantime. I always like the xp bar comments, as if a team of t1's wouldn't totally curb stomp a team of t3's...

[FupDup]

T0 would only be a temporary solution with the current PSR system. Since it's almost an XP bar, everyone in T1 will eventually claw their way up T0 whether they try to or not.

The primary issue is that PSR will increase more frequently than it decreases. These should be equalized so that there isn't a bias towards gaining PSR even if you're not doing anything special.

[wanderer]

Honestly, we don't need another tier.

We need a working PSR system that doesn't just eventually stuff all players in the same queue simply for having played enough times.

First, increase loss of PSR by about 25% more than it already is.

Then, make T5 gentler on PSR increase/decrease. A loss causes the smallest PSR loss from 200-51, a larger amount 0-50. Break even is 201-350 and a small gain with a 351 match score. Wins are no gain from 0-50, smallest gain 51-200, medium gain 201-350, largest gain 351+.

Take the current PSR system and treat that as Tier 4. That is, on a loss you'll lose PSR at 101-250 in small amounts, and a larger amount at 0-100. You break even at 251-400, and gain a small amount with a 400+ match score. Wins are no gain 0-100, smallest gain 101-250, medium gain 251-400, biggest gain 401+.

When you hit T3, you break even at 301 instead of 251 on a loss, lose a small amount for 300-151, a larger amount at 150-51, and still more (a new, larger amount than the T4 max) at 0-50. Scores below 151 on a win are "no change", small gain 151-300, medium gain 301-450, biggest gain 451+.

At T2, break even on a loss is 351. Small loss is 350-201, medium loss 200-101, largest loss at 100-0. Wins are "no change" up to 200, small gain 201-350, medium gain 351-500, large gain 501+.

And finally at T1, break even on a loss is 401, small loss 400-251, medium loss 250-151, largest loss 150-0. Wins are "no change" up to 250, small gain 251-400, medium gain 401-550, large gain 551+.

Voila. We've just likely gotten rid of at least some of the automatic positive bias from play, especially at higher tiers and skill actually matters to hold or make headway on high tier bars.

[Navid A1]

FupDup, on 25 May 2016 - 08:41 PM, said:

T0 would only be a temporary solution with the current PSR system. Since it's almost an XP bar, everyone in T1 will eventually claw their way up T0 whether they try to or not.

The primary issue is that PSR will increase more frequently than it decreases. These should be equalized so that there isn't a bias towards gaining PSR even if you're not doing anything special.

Someone tried saying that to Russ over twitter.
The response was along the lines of:

No. Impossible. People are perfectly happy with the new (and glorious) PSR system and we've had tons of positive feedback. Players can totally drop in tier if they don't score enough.

Further tries to explain things to Russ was met with silence

[Death Proof]

Until Tiers are no longer an RPG-style leveling mechanic, I see no reason for this.

20,000 matches or 20 matches, makes no difference; pretty much everyone climbs the ladder unless they are just really, really bad and/or are purposely trying to suck. It takes some longer than others, because they don't play very often, or they play solo and/or with random groups, but they all eventually reach the top....no matter how good of a player they are.

Inventing new tiers is a futile gesture.

They would do better by erasing the slate, by revising the PSR system to be less dependent on win/loss and even more about individual performance. Then introduce a BattleValue system that rates each mech and its current loadout, then factor in the pilot's PSR with that particular mech. No more trying to match by tiers, weight class and/or tonnage.

But whatever.

[Xetelian]

We don't need a tier 0 any more than we need a tier 6



I've put about 6900 matches in
5400 since archiving
1500 archived

Tier 3 is the best tier

Don't have to carry when matched with Tier 1s, that is their job
Don't have to try very hard to carry when matched with Tier 5 because you're seal clubbing

[Random Carnage]

Or they could have a tier system based on pilot skill. Now there's a thought.

[Aresye]

meteorol, on 25 May 2016 - 05:51 AM, said:

This game has more than enough players that simply don't get better, ever. Being terrible at playing videogames is incredbly widespread within this community. I'm pretty sure a considerable amount of MWOs T1 players wouldn't even make it out of silver ranks in CS:GO.

If you create a new T0 with higher entry requirements, it would just take a bit longer for people to get there (if it's either using the current rating system or just straight up "play x number of games", which the current PSR pretty much already is). They actually won't be better by then.

This game simply has a woefully low average player skill. Deal with it, there is no way to change it. Even in the highest rank of MWO play you will see people that wouldn't make it out of the lowest ranks in other games. This game targets a niche market full of old (on average compared to other games), casual players. During more than 15 years of playing FPS online, i have never seen a single game with lower average player skill. There is no way to seperate really good players from the rest, because there are simply not enough. It would absolutely nuke matchmaking.

You can thank the whole anti-meta, anti-competitive bandwagon for that one.

The thing is, playing ability is such as small part of the equation. Even running the meta is a small part of the equation. The single largest factor for success in MWO is........(brace for it)......

TEAMWORK

If players don't want to run the meta and/or spend over a dozen hours every week playing the game, that's fine. I get it.

What I DON'T get, are players who don't press R. Who don't call out enemy team movement, which mechs are hurt, or even just so much as STICK TOGETHER WITH THE REST OF THE FREAKING TEAM!

We have text chat. We have VOIP. Hell, the VOIP functionality and clarity is actually BETTER than CS:GO (IMO). Do players use it? No.

FFS, I see more teamwork and communication in the freaking CASUAL queue in CS:GO, than I do in ANY queue of MWO, including FW. There's absolutely no excuse for that.

[Alistair Winter]

Solaris will fix this problem, hopefully. I am praying that Solaris will be both 8v8 and free-for-all with 8 or 12 players per match. In other words, each free-for-all match in Solaris will have half or 1/3rd as many players as a regular 12v12 QP match, and Solaris 8v8 will be 2/3rds of a 12v12QP match.

Also, on account of Solaris leaderboards, I think we should see more activity there from top players. When you combine this with the lower number of players per match, I think you will see better matchmaking. I don't know about Tier 0, but maybe either Tier 1 Max or a separate Solaris ranking would be in order.

[oldradagast]

Malorish, on 25 May 2016 - 04:38 PM, said:

This community is so confusing. We want to call anyone who doesn't hug cover and play peekaboo a terribad noob. But we also want to call anyone doesn't push (likely to their death) the same.

So stop getting mad at people for playing the game the way it's designed to be played, and start demanding a different game.

Well, to be fair, "other people" are supposed to push and die, play light mechs and die (if light mechs were useless in combat "as they are supposed to be"), and do other things to die so that the "truly skilled" - who are simply the last ones into the fray - can pad their scores.

Anyway, you're right that if people want a different game, they should ask for it vs. complaining when people play this game for what it is. I also wish the hyper-competitive lunacy would end; people act as if being bad at a video game is the same as being a jobless bum with no skills and a drug and crime problem. It's just a game, people.

[oldradagast]

Aresye, on 25 May 2016 - 11:57 PM, said:

You can thank the whole anti-meta, anti-competitive bandwagon for that one.

The thing is, playing ability is such as small part of the equation. Even running the meta is a small part of the equation. The single largest factor for success in MWO is........(brace for it)......

TEAMWORK

True about the teamwork, but there is no "anti-competitive bandwagon." Find a single thread where people have asked for less teamwork in the game - you can't. The complaints about the overly small list of viable mechs and weapons at higher tier play is a valid one and is the main gripe of the "anti-meta" crowd, but that has nothing to do with teamwork. Similarly, the complaints about pitting large, practiced teams against random casuals and PUG's in Community Warfare is also valid, but that's not a complaint about teamwork but about stupid match-making that fails to account for player skill level and the huge benefit gained from playing in an organized group.

The game needs more teamwork, sure, but also less attempts by people to shout down all valid complaints with "you're a bad who hates teamwork."

Edited by oldradagast, 26 May 2016 - 03:18 AM.

[Willard Phule]

As nice an idea as this is, PGI will never implement it.

Their game model has always been "the better you are, the harder you have to carry." That's how both the old Elo/MM and new PSR system are designed. You will NEVER be able to drop into a public match without having terribads. They're either used as filler because population is low, or you get thrown into their queue because their population is low.

Remember those helpful "tips" on the loading screen. It's far more important for you to be nice to new players and teach them how to play...exclusively...than it is to focus on winning. Not sure why that is, but it's PGI's model.