29 replies to this topic

[CAT SIXX]

Apnu, on 26 May 2016 - 10:12 AM, said:

I took a break from MWO for a couple of months and recently came back. I see the murder-ball in quick play is the most effective thing.

If my team decides to ball up and the other team doesn't, we usually win.

Yet in my time back, I see a lot of teams that fly apart at the seams from the initial drop.

I don't understand why learning this "tactic" eludes players for so long.

Hahaha, yeah - that "deathball"-"tactic" was as successful as infamous in HAWKEN too. I can tell you bizarre stories about what has been tried to stop and splinter such a deathball - even Kamikaze actions played a role - for the sake of the team. BANZAI! And - yes - it takes 2 and a half eternity to learn that...

[Apnu]

CAT SIXX, on 26 May 2016 - 10:38 AM, said:

Hahaha, yeah - that "deathball"-"tactic" was as successful as infamous in HAWKEN too. I can tell you bizarre stories about what has been tried to stop and splinter such a deathball - even Kamikaze actions played a role - for the sake of the team. BANZAI! And - yes - it takes 2 and a half eternity to learn that...

The only thing I've found that breaks the deathball is patience and poking from multiple sides. Get the ball turning around and watch it become confused and loose cohesion.

However patience is not a gamer's strong suit, so I don't see it happen very often.

[Xetelian]

Stomps are not because of Match Making

Match maker separates people pretty well, a Tier 1 will never be on the same team with or against a Tier 5

What causes stomps is a LOT of differential factors

What mechs were picked> Metamonsters or LRM boats? Innersphere with XL or with STD?
What location you start at> Are the assaults starting really far away from the line of scrimmage?
Where you meet the enemy team> Is it Lights vs Heavies, mediums vs Assaults,
Who dies first> The first 3 deaths usually decide the match. Was the first death an Assault or a Light?
Snipers and LRMs the majority on an open map or the minority on a brawl map?

It has little to do with the match making at more to do with the positions and who dies first.



8v8 would be better but it would still have stomps.
4v4 would be even better but it would still have a lot of bearing on who dies first.


This isn't a skill issue, this is a map, position, build, mech, who dies first issue.

[CAT SIXX]

VompoVompatti, on 26 May 2016 - 10:12 AM, said:

One team gets out gunned right after they lose their first mech and it just keep getting worse from there in many cases. This is why so many of the games become stomps. It doesn't automaticly mean that there was a big skill cap between the two teams.

If this happens, it is easy to see why. The frequence within the teammates die starts low, and gets faster until the last one is down. Even this is true, and happens often, yes. Very obviously. But in many cases i've seen really unsure behaviour among my mates from the beginning of the match until the end - in hard contrast to the confident determination, the whole enemy showed the whole match long. Such a difference has another offspring, meaning there are noobish rookies vs. experienced veterans. I am not going to tell this happens ALL the time - but it happens. However - that won't hinder me from going on playing the best mech game i've seen, since i played the very 1st video games available in early 1980s - it forces me even more to "git gud", hahaha...

[Revis Volek]

This is the nature of most single respawn games, because once one side is down 2 mechs the snowball starts.

Its also a symptom of low population that the MM has to break so many rules every match just to find the players it needs. Often that included those from both ends of the Tier system.

[CAT SIXX]

ShiftySWP and the Pleated Pants, on 26 May 2016 - 10:12 AM, said:

Try this man....
http://mwomercs.com/...-tiers-and-psr/

Here is some fidelity on how MM works.... I may have a few numbers off but you will get the idea.

-Your tier can be matched against any other tier +/-2. Example: Tier 1 players only play against T1-T3. Tier 3 plays against everyone. T5 players only play T3-T5.

-The MM initially only pairs tier against tier.... I think for 1 or 2min. If it does not find you a match it will pull other tiers into your match. Example: MM initially only matches T1 against T1 PSR.... if MM takes to long to get a match it will open to T2 and then to T3.

-The match maker tries to match PSR as close between the combination of all players in both groups.

-There is no tonnage limit in solo quick play. The MM tries to get 3 light, 3 medium, 3 heavy, 3 assault on each team. But in periods when there are way more of one class (KODIAK release day), the gates open after a certain duration to allow more of that class in to keep wait times low.

-There is a tonnage limit in group quick play. For small groups that go light... you are gimping your group tonnage. So a whole bunch of small groups can drastically out tonnage a full 12man.

-The balance of a match is won through position, coordination, focused fire and luck. Not MM.

-Way back there was data show by PGI that for highly skilled groups close to the same skill level, there were more rolls than close games. This is likely due to the quick recognition and exploitation of a positioning mistake one team against another. Spoken a different way, good players will make you pay for mistakes very quickly and that can cascade immediate into a roll.

Hope this helps.

Awesome detailed informations. It helps a lot. So i thank you.

AssaultPig, on 26 May 2016 - 10:14 AM, said:

A game ending in a stomp doesn't necessarily indicate a 'skill' disparity; stomps are unfortunately kind of a structural problem with the quickplay game.

The amount of firepower that's out there now means it's super easy to lose a mech or two early on, whether because those people are new/bad/disconnected/potato/whatever or they just made a bad play and got unlucky. An 0-2 deficit is easy to get into but really hard to climb out of, since your team now has a lot less dps and a lot less armor to trade.

ed: also yeah, higher-skill games are more likely to end in stomps, since high-skill players are a lot more likely to fully exploit positioning advantages in the early game that new/unskilled/timid players.

That makes sense. It all makes sense. Thx-a-lot.

[CAT SIXX]

Lostdragon, on 26 May 2016 - 10:19 AM, said:

Couple of things, often matches that are "stomps" with a big score deficit between teams are closer than the kill counter would make things appear. Often times it comes down to which team most effectively rotates the vanguard and thus avoids losses. A match can end 12-0 with the winning team having many mechs one shot away from death.

The nature of the no respawn game type in quick play tends to make any mistake difficult to over come. The team that gets the first kill will often win the match unless they made a lot of bad trades to get that kill. Once a team is losing by 3 mechs the odds of a comeback are extremely low in my experience.

Combine these factors with the nature of 12v12 where you are often focus fired by 3-4 people at a time if you are out of position or just have some bad luck and you wind up with a game mode that is very, very unforgiving because one great player can't carry hard enough to overcome more than one bad decision by his team.

Matchmaker cannot overcome any of those factors. It is quite possibly for two teams of relatively equal skill and equipment to wind up with 12-0 matches just due to the nature of the game. I've played in plenty of pug matches where I have seen some of the top players in the game get completely shut down and die with less than 200 damage while losing 12-0. It happens to everyone.

Sometimes you just have a bad game or series of games. It is easier on a lot of people's ego to blame that on matchmaker or the teams. Is the matchmaker perfect? Not by a long shot. But I don't think there is anything you could do to the matchmaker to prevent "stomps" because a lot of the things that cause those are not factors match making can control.

The more i read here, the more i see clear. It's a matter of many corresponding things. But it's understood, and i guess it's the best possible way how it works, as it is actually. Thx for all the help.

Apnu, on 26 May 2016 - 10:44 AM, said:

The only thing I've found that breaks the deathball is patience and poking from multiple sides. Get the ball turning around and watch it become confused and loose cohesion.

However patience is not a gamer's strong suit, so I don't see it happen very often.

Absolutely true! Once the train rolls, it's almost unstoppable...

Edited by CAT SIXX, 26 May 2016 - 11:00 AM.

[Metus regem]

To is two freaking letters man/woman, and for is three letters! How hard is it to use the words rather than numbers....


Sorry but it really annoys me when people are so lazy that they have to use a number rather than typing 2-3 letters....



Anyways, welcome to match maker, bringing you unbalanced matches since 2012!

[CAT SIXX]

So many replies, so many helpful guys around her. Please allow me to thank you all for your many replies to my post. I really appreciate that. I've come to the conclusion, that it doesn't have to be my fault, or my team's fault, or the matchmakers fault for a series of defeats - it's just a matter of a mix of bad luck, small but sometimes fatal decisions, maybe a bit of lack of map knowledge, temporal unawareness, and the choice to play an URBIE with an AC20! - Hahahaha. No - i didn't... And i don't underestimate an Urbie anymore since i have seen one killing a fresh King Crab alone! He was our last man standing and won the match! Guess a good player can even turn the tides with a single ERSLaser, if he/she acts smart enough... That's something i still have to learn, and i am sure it's a looong way, but i keep on trying. Thx again to you all. Nuff said - now a last match for today!

Cya on the battlefield, dudes.

Regards, CAT SIXX.

[CAT SIXX]

Metus regem, on 26 May 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

To is two freaking letters man/woman, and for is three letters! How hard is it to use the words rather than numbers....


Sorry but it really annoys me when people are so lazy that they have to use a number rather than typing 2-3 letters....



Anyways, welcome to match maker, bringing you unbalanced matches since 2012!

Hahaha. I apologize again for that. You might have been noticed, i did quit that typo-mania already. Once more - sorry, dude. Won't happen again....