36 replies to this topic

[Exard3k]

metamechs website only has crap builds. don't use those, get your own builds that work much better

[TercieI]

Exard3k, on 28 May 2016 - 09:00 AM, said:

metamechs website only has crap builds. don't use those, get your own builds that work much better

Don't be daft. Virtually every top player has various quibbles with GMan's choices, but they're all fine tuning or personal style choices. He understands the game deeply and plays it excellently. Any new player would do well to try some of his builds and try to understand why and how they work rather than building their own to accommodate their own likely bad habits. Posts like this are also why I regularly have to suggest new players also check out HPG Outreach, where discussion among competitive players happens as the rule rather than the exception as it is here.

Edited by TercieI, 28 May 2016 - 09:29 AM.

[Jables McBarty]

Rogue Jedi, on 27 May 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

it completely depends on what you want the jets for, PGI have foolishly implemented a system where 1 jet gives you a turn speed advantage ^{(I think it should be that jets give no turn speed boost, or failing that a scaling boost starting with 2 jets for a small amount of airborne agility and more jets giving more agailty)}

if I take jets it is because I want to get over obstacles or reach areas most Mechs cannot, I run near max jump jets on a Spider 5V and it gains altitude so much faster than other Mechs that I have been accused of cheating, what a surprise that 11 Jumpjets gives you altitude a lot faster and far higher max altitude than 6, six jets will get you onto the high platforms on bog from ground level, 12 will get you up there quickly with plenty of fuel left.

the whole hoverjet complaints are usually from people who pack 1-2 jets on a heavy/assault ^{(unfortunately the Highlander can only take 3 and the heavier the Mech the less the jets seem to do despite the fact that an assault pays 4 times the tonnage that a light does per jet)} and expect to get the performance that 6+ jets give you on a light/medium, I usually run at least 4 if I am taking jets, and do not bother with them on heavy or assault Mechs unless I can take 4+, the most effective way I have found to use a few jets to gain altitude is to run up a hill and fire the jets as the hill starts to flatten out

What build do you run on your 5V?

[Rogue Jedi]

Jables McBarty, on 28 May 2016 - 10:06 AM, said:

What build do you run on your 5V?

this is the 5V build
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9aa585465b6ff4b
ironically I tend to get higher damage in this ^{(the most lightly armed variant in the game)} than most assault Mechs

[Jables McBarty]

Rogue Jedi, on 28 May 2016 - 10:14 AM, said:

this is the 5V build
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9aa585465b6ff4b
ironically I tend to get higher damage in this ^{(the most lightly armed variant in the game)} than most assault Mechs

Lol, i run nearly the same build--I read 5V and thought 5K (my 5K build only runs 4JJ, and I was thinking "How does he get 11 on that thing????").

For the 5V I run an XL285 and pare down the arms to 1 armor each, but still have the 11 JJ and 2ML.

Have you ever had luck in the 1LPL build? I regularly hit 400+ with 2mpl, but I tried 1LPL in four games and never broke 100 damage.

Edited by Jables McBarty, 28 May 2016 - 10:24 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Jables McBarty, on 28 May 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

Lol, i run nearly the same build--I read 5V and thought 5K (my 5K build only runs 4JJ, and I was thinking "How does he get 11 on that thing????").

For the 5V I run an XL285 and pare down the arms to 1 armor each, but still have the 11 JJ and 2ML.

Have you ever had luck in the 1LPL build? I regularly hit 400+ with 2mpl, but I tried 1LPL in four games and never broke 100 damage.

I have never tried 1 LPL in the SDR-5V, in a Mech that mobile an LPL would be a downgrade in my opinion, there is no way you should have trouble closing the distance and would need to find 3 more tons ^{(likely by dropping 6 jets or reducing engine size, and why take the 5V if not for speed and jump capability)}, for a weapon with longer burn time and less damage potential than 2 MPL thus less useful in my preferred role as a highly mobile harasser. I did try upping the engine, adding an extra jet and dropping the lasers to two SPL for a faster laser burn time but that had lower average damage than the 2 MPL build without a noticeable increase in mobility.

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 28 May 2016 - 10:56 AM.

[TercieI]

Rogue Jedi, on 28 May 2016 - 10:33 AM, said:

never tried 1 LPL, in a Mech that mobile an LPL would be a downgrade in my opinion, there is no way you should have trouble closing the distance and would need to find 3 more tons ^{(likely by dropping 6 jets or reducing engine size, and why take the 5V if not for speed and jump capability)}, for a weapon with longer burn time thus less useful in my preferred role as a highly mobile harasser. I did try upping the engine, adding an extra jet and dropping the lasers to two SPL for a faster laser burn time but that had lower average damage than the 2 MPL build.

Before the range reduction, 1LPL was awesome because of its range. Now, less so.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Exard3k, on 28 May 2016 - 09:00 AM, said:

metamechs website only has crap builds. don't use those, get your own builds that work much better

lol wat?

TercieI, on 28 May 2016 - 09:27 AM, said:

Don't be daft. Virtually every top player has various quibbles with GMan's choices, but they're all fine tuning or personal style choices.

this. When you understand this game well you can take a look at any mech and more or less immediately figure out what the best possible load out will be.

Sure, there will be variations on theme, but take the Kodiak 3 for example. The minute the community saw 4 high mounted ballistic hardpoints EVERYBODY and their mom that is worth their salt in this game immediately thought "4 Ultra AC 10s!"
Gman was not on the forefront of the idea. Rather he just happens to have a popular website that documents said build ideas.

As Terciel mentioned, not everyone agrees with him everywhere, myself included. But fundamentally the builds and concepts listed in Metamechs are very very sound.

The biggest caveat with Metamechs is that the builds are largely optimized for experienced pilots. Hence this thread where people ask "why only one jump jet?" Or the typical confusion new players have over asymmetric or dead-side builds.

It might be time to ask Gman to include a specifically "beginner friendly" build list.

[Rogue Jedi]

TercieI, on 28 May 2016 - 08:53 AM, said:

That's not true. The difference between 1&2 on a light is a big deal. And the 6 locked on the ACH allow it to do things no other light can do.

agreed, double the number of jets and you double the altitude you can jump to

as for the ACH I assume that is referring to the combo of ECM, 6 guns and lots of jets, it heavily outguns the SDR-5D the only other fast Mech able to take both ECM and Jumpjets but the Jenner and Firestarter can carry simular firepower to the ACH with more speed and a comparable number of jets.
Depending on the role for a fast Jumping Light I prefer the SDR, JR7-D, JR7-IIC or FS9-E but if you need something versatile the ACH could be the best choice.

[TercieI]

Rogue Jedi, on 28 May 2016 - 11:23 AM, said:

agreed, double the number of jets and you double the altitude you can jump to

as for the ACH I assume that is referring to the combo of ECM, 6 guns and lots of jets, it heavily outguns the SDR-5D the only other fast Mech able to take both ECM and Jumpjets but the Jenner and Firestarter can carry simular firepower to the ACH with more speed and a comparable number of jets.
Depending on the role for a fast Jumping Light I prefer the SDR, JR7-D, JR7-IIC or FS9-E but if you need something versatile the ACH could be the best choice.

Yeah, they can carry that number of JJ, but properly built, they won't. If you could take them off the ACH, you wouldn't run more than 2 either, really, but being forced into six, you can do some fun stuff with them.

[Hammerfinn]

Aside from the quick-turn thing, it used to be that one jet would give you the full jump-capacity of the chassis. I've noticed that metamechs has quite a few semi-outdated builds, and perhaps the one-jet is also a bit of a remnant from that, but he's been working through them.

[TercieI]

Hammerfinn, on 28 May 2016 - 11:36 AM, said:

Aside from the quick-turn thing, it used to be that one jet would give you the full jump-capacity of the chassis. I've noticed that metamechs has quite a few semi-outdated builds, and perhaps the one-jet is also a bit of a remnant from that, but he's been working through them.

I don't think Metamechs even existed until after the main JJ nerf. For bigger mechs, 1 helps turns and getting over rocks and more doesn't do much more so 1 is usually the correct number. If you're running more JJ, you should have a specific reason (pop shooting etc.)

[xe N on]

TercieI, on 28 May 2016 - 08:53 AM, said:

That's not true. The difference between 1&2 on a light is a big deal. And the 6 locked on the ACH allow it to do things no other light can do.

Ok, maybe I exaggerated. You will of course notice a difference on each chassis between 1 and multiple jump jets. But, when it comes to jumping, medium mechs simply do it best currently.

Look your self at smurfys. For 4 ton of JJs a 55 ton medium get 38.35 m. A 35 ton light get for 4 ton 29.73 m.
If you go down to 40 ton (e.g. CDA-3F) you will get even 52.73 m.

[Rogue Jedi]

xe N on, on 28 May 2016 - 11:45 AM, said:

Ok, maybe I exaggerated. You will of course notice a difference on each chassis between 1 and multiple jump jets. But, when it comes to jumping, medium mechs simply do it best currently.

the Spider would like to disagree.

put max JumpJets on any Light and it jumps as well or better than mediums ^{(the exception is the Jumping Cicada which with max jets jumps as well as or better than anything except the SDR-5V)}

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 28 May 2016 - 12:42 PM.

[xe N on]

Rogue Jedi, on 28 May 2016 - 12:16 PM, said:

the Spider would like to disagree.

put max JumpJets on any Light and it jumps as well or better than mediums ^{(the exception is the Jumping Cicada which with max jets jumps as well as or better than anything except the SDR-5V)}

ton for ton: no. Some Spider can only compensate by equipping a lot of jump jets.

Mediums jumps best. GRFs jump much higher than Firestarter and Artic Cheetah for example.

And even the SPD-5V with 12 (!!! = 6 tons) jumpjets doesn't beat the CDA-3F with 8 jump jets (=4 tons).

Edited by xe N on, 28 May 2016 - 12:33 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

xe N on, on 28 May 2016 - 12:24 PM, said:

ton for ton: no. Some Spider can only compensate by equipping a lot of jump jets.

Mediums jumps best. GRFs jump much higher than Firestarter and Artic Cheetah for example.

And even the SPD-5V with 12 (!!! = 6 tons) jumpjets doesn't beat the CDA-3F with 8 jump jets (=4 tons).

you are correct, I was mistaken.
I was so certain that Smurfys figures were wrong I just tried it in testing grounds to prove it, on Bog the ACH just bailey reached the top platforms with max burn but the SHC easily cleared them with the same number of jets.

[TercieI]

xe N on, on 28 May 2016 - 11:45 AM, said:

Ok, maybe I exaggerated. You will of course notice a difference on each chassis between 1 and multiple jump jets. But, when it comes to jumping, medium mechs simply do it best currently.

Look your self at smurfys. For 4 ton of JJs a 55 ton medium get 38.35 m. A 35 ton light get for 4 ton 29.73 m.
If you go down to 40 ton (e.g. CDA-3F) you will get even 52.73 m.

Don't have to look, well know that mediums jump best. Just disputing that 1 gets you all there is to get. Used to be that way, definitely isn't now. I actually think the current situation for mediums is good and would like to see other classes match.