Jump to content

Info Warfare?


16 replies to this topic

#1 Weeny Machine

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 4,014 posts
  • LocationAiming for the flat top (B. Murray)

Posted 29 May 2016 - 02:19 AM

Hey there,

I have taken some time off for a couple of month and just came back recently only to find the same old game.

What happened to the plans of info warfare? Is it officially dead?

It would be great if mechs could be balanced with other things than structure, agility or...as usual...more and more firepower

#2 Airwind

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 158 posts

Posted 29 May 2016 - 02:28 AM

it is just a carrot on a stick. u being the living proof it works.

#3 Brandarr Gunnarson

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 847 posts

Posted 29 May 2016 - 03:20 AM

They could implement IW, but they'd need to remove the auto-C3 and reintroduce it as the equipment.

The upcoming Cyclops' special sensor suite is a great experiment and a step toward a Sensor Handprint and equip-able sensor suite. I hope they implement this, among other IW changes, in the near future.

#4 Appogee

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 10,967 posts
  • LocationOn planet Tukayyid, celebrating victory

Posted 29 May 2016 - 03:23 AM

View PostBush Hopper, on 29 May 2016 - 02:19 AM, said:

What happened to the plans of info warfare? Is it officially dead?

Would you like to hear what actually happened, or would you like to hear how PGI post-rationalized what happened?

It's a serious question. You have to choose your reality on this one. I can share either with you.

What actually happened is that PGI had a half-formed idea about InfoTech which was - at heart - a good alternative way to make MWO more interesting than a bog standard FPSer.

So PGI changed a bunch of weapon and sensor values, and deployed those new values to a test server about a month before Steam Launch.

However, PGI made some outright mistakes in some of the values on the test server, and they also hadn't fully thought through some of the impacts for specific Mech interactions under the InfoTech system. So some Mechs that you'd think would get advantages from InfoTech were instead heavily penalised, and others were heavily advantaged, and there seemed no consistent philosophy behind any of it.

There was a massive outcry of QQ. It was led by alphastrike warriors who were resistant to the idea of anything more than point and shoot mechanics. Plus, some of the obvious errors and half-thought-through ideas on the test server were used as examples to claim that InfoTech as a concept was fundamentally flawed. Even those who'd never logged in to the test server were convinced that InfoTech would be armageddon for MWO.

Threats of mass walkouts and trashing of MWO's reputation on Steam were made.

Radio silence from PGI. It being the weekend, they were likely enjoying a well-earned rest after a hard week of plugging new values into spreadsheets 90% error-free, and re-arranging existing Mechs into Special Steam Packs.

Fortunately, the shills at No Gripes No Grievances were paying attention to the outcry. Concerned that their codependent nirvana might be cut short by the premature death of their host organism, they used back channel communications to alert the PGI devs that the peasants were revolting.

PGI went into damage control mode. They knew they had to quieten down the critics before the now-imminent Steam launch. So they told NGNG that the InfoTech deployment on the test server was only "one part of InfoTech, and was never intended to be considered in isolation". (NGNG didn't seem to think it strange that none of the many official dev announcements about the InfoTech public server test had ever mentioned such a thing previously.) NGNG quickly produced a looong video, relaying PGI's excuse and reassurance to the playerbase, who collectively said "...eh?"

Once their relaxing and all-too-short Montreal weekend had drawn to a close, PGI reluctantly dragged themselves back into the office, immediately shut down the public test server, and claimed they'd do a lot more work on "the other phases of InfoTech".

And then PGI quietly buried it InfoTech the desert, where it could no longer be a threat to the masses of Steam players who they fervently hoped would buy MWO, appreciating it as the masterpiece it truly was ... unlike their existing customers, ingrates who not only never had a good suggestion, but just didn't appreciate how fantastic the game already was.

That's what happened to InfoTech.

Now, please buy a Cyclops Pack or a Night Gyr Pack. And who needs silly old InfoTech or an engaging base game when Hero Mechs are an incredible 50% off all weekend?!

Edited by Appogee, 29 May 2016 - 05:43 AM.


#5 bLeeat

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The People's Hero
  • 371 posts

Posted 29 May 2016 - 03:30 AM

View PostBrandarr Gunnarson, on 29 May 2016 - 03:20 AM, said:

They could implement IW, but they'd need to remove the auto-C3 and reintroduce it as the equipment.

The upcoming Cyclops' special sensor suite is a great experiment and a step toward a Sensor Handprint and equip-able sensor suite. I hope they implement this, among other IW changes, in the near future.

people dont even try to info war tho... u'll never see lights scouting.. everyone just going for damage.. and it sounds like ur ok for paying for a cyclops to try out pgi's next "experiment"...

#6 Weeny Machine

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 4,014 posts
  • LocationAiming for the flat top (B. Murray)

Posted 29 May 2016 - 03:48 AM

Thanks for bringing me up to date, especially Appogee

Ok, sounds like a good idea getting dumped because the skill to implement is simply not there. This also doesn't bode well for any Solaris VII plans - most likely it will be a deathmatch arena mode in a game already full with quasi arena deathmatch modes (despite Solaris is much more: bet, conspiracies, companies/stables competing with each other, trying to get funds etc)

Edited by Bush Hopper, 29 May 2016 - 03:52 AM.


#7 Appogee

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 10,967 posts
  • LocationOn planet Tukayyid, celebrating victory

Posted 29 May 2016 - 03:59 AM

View PostBush Hopper, on 29 May 2016 - 03:48 AM, said:

Thanks for bringing me up to date, especially Appogee

PS: Oh, I forgot the best part. Russ Bullock later claimed during a Town Hall that he felt MWO already has a lot of Information Warfare aspects in its current form. Sub-text "we don't need to do InfoTech because you already have it".

PPS: Remind me someday to share with you the entertaining story of Paul Innoue's post in which he - commendably - gave us a stern early warning that a major rework of ECM was coming. Many of us hoped for a proper implementation of C3. Or maybe active vs passive radars, as featured in the freeware mod MW:LL. However, this "major rework" turned out to be ... halving a single value, ECM range. That was it. That was all of it. The "major rework" was to halve a single number.

Edited by Appogee, 29 May 2016 - 07:08 AM.


#8 Bud Crue

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Rage
  • Rage
  • 9,981 posts
  • LocationOn the farm in central Minnesota

Posted 29 May 2016 - 04:00 AM

Appogee,

That was brilliant, just brilliant writing. I could actually "hear" the words getting louder and more heated as I read. Then at the buried in the desert paragraph, listened as a tiny bit of your heart and faith was forever broken.

#9 Joshua McEvedy

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Ogre
  • The Ogre
  • 491 posts
  • LocationDuchy of Oriente, Free Worlds League

Posted 29 May 2016 - 04:02 AM

I think it's a crying shame that IW has been buried despite all the prior ballyhoo, since I think it does add a whole new, and more realistic, dimension to the game, and would actually give lights, fast mediums, and command mechs, something more useful to do. But alas, the point-and-click alpha warriors once again kill a good idea. However, if PGI actually gave must greater rewards for spotting, tagging, NARCing, ECM countering and disrupting, etc., rather than encouraging more KDA tunnel vision, maybe some minds might be changed?

Edited by Joshua McEvedy, 29 May 2016 - 04:04 AM.


#10 Appogee

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 10,967 posts
  • LocationOn planet Tukayyid, celebrating victory

Posted 29 May 2016 - 04:02 AM

View PostBush Hopper, on 29 May 2016 - 03:48 AM, said:

This also doesn't bode well for any Solaris VII plans - most likely it will be a deathmatch arena mode in a game already full with quasi arena deathmatch modes (despite Solaris is much more: bet, conspiracies, companies/stables competing with each other, trying to get funds etc)
It will add solo deathmatch to team deathmatch. I guess that's a form of progress.

#11 Weeny Machine

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 4,014 posts
  • LocationAiming for the flat top (B. Murray)

Posted 29 May 2016 - 04:03 AM

View PostAppogee, on 29 May 2016 - 03:59 AM, said:

PPS: Remind me someday to share with you the entertaining story of Paul Innoue's post in which he commendably gave us early warning that a major rework of ECM was the works. This "major rework" turned out to be halving a single value - its range. That's it. That's a "major rework", PGI style.


Oh geez. I bet they also slapped on each others backs for that masterpiece of work haha

#12 Joshua McEvedy

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Ogre
  • The Ogre
  • 491 posts
  • LocationDuchy of Oriente, Free Worlds League

Posted 29 May 2016 - 04:04 AM

View PostAppogee, on 29 May 2016 - 03:59 AM, said:

PS: Oh, I forgot the best part. Russ Bullock later claimed during a Town Hall that he felt MWO already has a lot of Information Warfare aspects in its current form.

PPS: Remind me someday to share with you the entertaining story of Paul Innoue's post in which he commendably gave us early warning that a major rework of ECM was the works. This "major rework" turned out to be halving a single value - its range. That's it. That's a "major rework", PGI style.


Paul also promised a general "de-quirkening" that never happened, and threw his team under the bus, claiming that it was their fault that mechs had become overpowered because he wasn't paying attention, being focused on other more important things (whatever they may be). That wasn't cool.

Edited by Joshua McEvedy, 29 May 2016 - 04:06 AM.


#13 Bud Crue

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Rage
  • Rage
  • 9,981 posts
  • LocationOn the farm in central Minnesota

Posted 29 May 2016 - 04:10 AM

Not contrasting anything Appogee wrote above (still in awe of that tirade), but given the limited use of random drop zones (yes, they change a bit, but not enough to matter), the lack of map diversity and size, the lack of diverse game modes, and most importantly the inability to take a mech appropriate to the environment in which it is being dropped (yay! voting!); I assert that any significant "info-tech" addition was doomed from the get go. There is simply no real use for fancy detecting or sensor aspects in 90% of this game (I admit that in scouting it might be useful). Even the satellite window thingy you can get in invasion (from sufficient scouting) where you see everything for a bit of time is not that big of a deal. How much more could info-tech possibly provide over that?

Now, go buy a Cyclops because that extra 25% sensor boost is a game changer!

#14 Livewyr

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 6,733 posts
  • LocationWisconsin, USA

Posted 29 May 2016 - 05:29 AM

Appogee has it about right.

(Including the reactions of players to the damage control: "Wha?" NGNG should probably work on a political campaign staff... they can actually lie with a straight face- or better yet, they believed that crap.)

Any which way, I don't have a whole lot to add to Appogee's thing, except that even as flawed as the Infotech PTS was, it was still more fun than the live server will ever.... ever.. EVER be.

(Not all is lost though! I'm thoroughly enjoying Overwatch, Heroes, and several other games. And I get much amusement from people complaining about how Blizzard is such a crappy dev co. that doesn't care about fans...)

#15 El Bandito

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 26,736 posts
  • LocationStill doing ungodly amount of damage, but with more accuracy.

Posted 29 May 2016 - 05:54 AM

View PostAppogee, on 29 May 2016 - 03:23 AM, said:

Radio silence from PGI. It being the weekend, they were likely enjoying a well-earned rest after a hard week of plugging new values into spreadsheets 90% error-free, and re-arranging existing Mechs into Special Steam Packs.


I loled at this for being true in every balance patch.

Edited by El Bandito, 29 May 2016 - 05:54 AM.


#16 Narcissistic Martyr

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 4,242 posts
  • LocationLouisville, KY

Posted 29 May 2016 - 07:50 AM

View PostbLeeat, on 29 May 2016 - 03:30 AM, said:

people dont even try to info war tho... u'll never see lights scouting.. everyone just going for damage.. and it sounds like ur ok for paying for a cyclops to try out pgi's next "experiment"...


To be fair, 90% of fights happen at the same place so why scout and risk getting instasploded?

Personally I do scout very briefly to make sure the enemy hasn't gotten clever but there usually isn't any need for it.

#17 Brandarr Gunnarson

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 847 posts

Posted 29 May 2016 - 08:03 PM

View PostbLeeat, on 29 May 2016 - 03:30 AM, said:

people dont even try to info war tho... u'll never see lights scouting.. everyone just going for damage.. and it sounds like ur ok for paying for a cyclops to try out pgi's next "experiment"...


Wow! I just put forth an ounce of optimism and I got a ton of salt back! That's a pretty good return on my investment! :P

Seriously, though; this tentative step could be important. I hope it is received with calls for "More!!!"

Also, there are ways to incentivize scouting:
http://mwomercs.com/...ng-information/

This gem of an idea could be just a wonderful addition to the game.

Of course, IW and scouting need more than just extra range on some sensors and simple rewards to make it work. Active/passive radar, proper checks and balances for detection and all that, which has already been discussed ad nauseam.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users