11 replies to this topic

[NTrippy]

I'm having trouble finding information on how the damage system works. Is damage points to armor points 1:1? Or does the armor resist damage differently? What I mean is, if you have 20 points of armor on your arm, and it gets hit by an AC/20, is the armor just barely defeated? I'm confused even moer after what I believe was a single LRM5 took out my 20 points of armor on my CT in one salvo. It could have been multiple LRM5's, but I counted five impacts, and nothing else hit. So can someone explain how armor vs damage vs internals works?

[Wintersdark]

Yes, 1:1, ablative armor. If you have 20 points of armor on your arm, and it gets hit by an AC20 round (within the AC20's optimal range; damage falls off after that) then you've got no armor on your arm, just exposed structure.

[NTrippy]

Wintersdark, on 30 May 2016 - 04:33 PM, said:

Yes, 1:1, ablative armor. If you have 20 points of armor on your arm, and it gets hit by an AC20 round (within the AC20's optimal range; damage falls off after that) then you've got no armor on your arm, just exposed structure.

Okay thanks. What about the structure/internals? How much HP do those things have? Does it vary by mech? How do I find out how much it can take after the armor is gone? While I'm at it, how to I tell how many slots I have available?

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Apsyc, on 30 May 2016 - 04:47 PM, said:

Okay thanks. What about the structure/internals? How much HP do those things have? Does it vary by mech? How do I find out how much it can take after the armor is gone? While I'm at it, how to I tell how many slots I have available?

Structure is equal to half of the maximum armor in that section (for torso parts that is front+back) along with any quirks that mech has that may increase structure. Structure may also take crit damage from weapons. Crit damage transfers 15% to structure health and 100% to any components (weapons, heatsinks, etc) in that section. Components usually have about 10 hp (gauss and clan ECM are weaker while AC20 is stronger).

Simply put structure takes an average of about 8% more damage than armor due to crits. I didn't math that out fully, just an estimate since crits happen about half the time.

[Void Angel]

Apsyc, on 30 May 2016 - 04:47 PM, said:

Okay thanks. What about the structure/internals? How much HP do those things have? Does it vary by mech? How do I find out how much it can take after the armor is gone? While I'm at it, how to I tell how many slots I have available?

The 'Mech Lab will tell you how many slots you have available, and how many structure and armor points you have in each location - while some 'mechs have quirked armor (or structure,) the default structure and armor values are based on the tonnage of the BattleMech, with the maximum armor in a component (e.g. left torso) being twice the component's structure, and the head being the same across all chassis - though nearly all Light pilots pull armor out of the head. You can (and should) research 'mech builds, equipment characteristics, and even quirks with Smurfy's Awesome Reference Page - the best reference site I've ever seen for a game.

Damage to armor is 1:1. There's no way to get "bonus" damge. Thus - even on your Locust - if you got hit with an LRM5 and it took out your CT, you got hit with something else. This can happen in a number of ways: each of those impacts could have been an LRM volley; there could have been simultaneous hits, or more hits than you counted; you could also have been hit by additional weapons that do not create impacts, notably lasers.

Now, internal structure works the same way as armor - mostly. The difference is that you get a small amount of bonus damage from "critical hits." Crits work oddly in Battletech - they're geared toward damaging your 'mech's systems, not dealing massive damage (as in most other games.) In a nutshell, and hit that damages your structure has a chance to do damage to a piece of equipment (like a heat sink or weapon) in that location. You get a small amount of actual structure damage from critical hits as well, and some weapons (Machine Guns, AC/2s, etc) are better at scoring and dealing crits - the details are... detailed, and unimportant.

PS: contrary to popular misconception, a critical hit does not inflict 15% of the weapon's damage - it only gives bonus damage based on the "hit points" (not to be confused with structure or armor points) of the equipment damaged or destroyed by it. Thus, if I did 5 points to a Heat Sink with an AC/5 crit, I'd get a whopping .75 points of extra damage, and the Heat Sink's "hit points" would go from 10 to 5. If I then hit that Heat Sink with an AC/20, I'd obliterate the Heat Sink - and deal another .75 bonus structure damage.

Edited by Void Angel, 30 May 2016 - 05:08 PM.

[NTrippy]

Dakota1000, on 30 May 2016 - 04:55 PM, said:

Structure is equal to half of the maximum armor in that section (for torso parts that is front+back) along with any quirks that mech has that may increase structure. Structure may also take crit damage from weapons. Crit damage transfers 15% to structure health and 100% to any components (weapons, heatsinks, etc) in that section. Components usually have about 10 hp (gauss and clan ECM are weaker while AC20 is stronger).

Simply put structure takes an average of about 8% more damage than armor due to crits. I didn't math that out fully, just an estimate since crits happen about half the time.

Awesome. Thank you very much.

[NTrippy]

Okay, now are lasers better against armor? I keep reading things that imply that you should use lasers on armor, and ballistics on internals. Is this a misconception?

[Wintersdark]

Apsyc, on 30 May 2016 - 05:24 PM, said:

Okay, now are lasers better against armor? I keep reading things that imply that you should use lasers on armor, and ballistics on internals. Is this a misconception?

yes. It doesn't really matter. Damage is damage.

[Void Angel]

Apsyc, on 30 May 2016 - 05:24 PM, said:

Okay, now are lasers better against armor? I keep reading things that imply that you should use lasers on armor, and ballistics on internals.

Nope! Damage is damage. Anyone telling you to do that is probably a newb, or absorbed some (very) bad advice when they were a newbie. Now, it is a bit easier to quickly kill internals (heat sinks, ammo, etc) - with an AC/10, say - because most internals have 10 "hit points," so any crit will just blast them. A laser, on the other hand, spreads its damage out into distinct "ticks" - each tick has its own chance to crit, and only does one tick's worth of critical damage. Thus, you can spread 10 points of crit damage over two or three internals and not destroy a single one of them.

However, the marginal advantage this yields is absolutely not worth saving your ballistics - and if you can only afford to fire either your lasers or your ballistics, you're over-armed (or you're trying some kind of generalist build; generally a bad idea.)

PS: It's also worth noting that components (say an arm) with no internals do not suffer crits - stuff like arm actuators have 0 hp in the game files, and thus will deal 0 bonus damage if they are crit (and I'm not even sure they can be crit; they're there because of the tabletop game, and may be destructible in the future. Some of them affect your range of arm motion, but generally you don't have to worry unless you're an OmniMech.)

Edited by Void Angel, 30 May 2016 - 05:36 PM.

[Wintersdark]

People like to say LBX autocannons are better vs internals, and while there's some logic to that on the face of it, in practice it doesn't play out that way, but that discussion is well beyond the scope of this thread. Just understand that damage is damage - a weapon that does 10 damage does 10 damage to structure or armour.

Crits are very complicated. If you want to understand how they work, look here: http://mwomercs.com/...-a-brief-guide/

But, the short and sweet is: don't chase crits, and don't worry about them initially. Crits only happen when you're taking structural damage, and structural damage is usually only 1/3 of the health to a component, so realistically you tend to lose weapons when you're just about to lose that whole part of your mech anyways.

[SilentScreamer]

Apsyc, on 30 May 2016 - 05:24 PM, said:

Okay, now are lasers better against armor? I keep reading things that imply that you should use lasers on armor, and ballistics on internals. Is this a misconception?

As Wintersdark said damage is damage. However, going beyond damage numbers, good pilot will minimize the damage they take while dealing out plenty. How you accomplish this depends on how you pilot and your mech's characteristics:

- Mechs with weapon mounts high in torsos or raised arms (blackjack, rifleman, jagermech) are good for shooting over hills.
- Mechs with weapons mounted on one side, arms or torso should corner-peek, fire, then back up.

In both cases, Mechs that rely on long range lasers have to be exposed for the full duration of their weapon meaning the enemy can return fire. Ballastics, SRMs or PPCs mean you can take cover right after pulling the trigger. The result is you are less vulnerable and should take less damage during a match.

[p4r4g0n]

Just a little add on about armour and internal structure - the only exception to structure being 50% of the armour values is the cockpit. A cockpit has 15 internal structure points and a fully armoured cockpit will add 18 armour points for a total of 33.

In this game, the only differences to weapon types are the way they inflict damage -

pinpoint (energy, ballistics other than lbx) vs spread (missiles, lbx)
front loaded (ballistics, ppc, missiles) vs damage over time (lasers)

Edited by p4r4g0n, 30 May 2016 - 08:19 PM.