56 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Crockdaddy, on 09 June 2016 - 12:17 PM, said:

Do you even patch note brah? If you've read the patch notes ... no IS mech of significance has more than a 10% buff. Clans out of the box have much greater ranges.

Wasting your electrons.

People create excuses for why they should continue to do the same things that they've always done that have failed but everyone else should change so it succeeds.

There are countless examples of people playing clans and winning. The forum is full of good builds and good directions. However some people won't do what works - they want to do what fails and have it work anyway.

They leave nothing to chance. Won't play good mechs cuz.... whatever bad excuse. They won't play in a coordinated team cuz... well, that one is harder but still doable.They won't learn and apply new strats or play aggressive cuz..... some other weak sauce excuse.

So they're bad. They have set themselves up to fail and try to make everyone else responsible for it. They want to play it like it's a SP game with bad AI carefully balanced so they win no matter what stupid things they do. They fail and fail and keep doing what fails because they're either too scared to change or, even more stupidly, think doing what works is "giving up".

Which it sort of is. It's giving up excuses and giving up being bad to do what works.

Nobody gets to the pros or Olympics on their own. They find good teams and good coaches, they study and follow in the footsteps of successful people before them. They may add their own style but it's built upon the fundamentals of success established by those who've come before.

A failure tries to "buck the system" and "break the meta" and has a million excuses why they lose. A winner masters the meta and then makes it his own.

[ccrider]

Breaking the meta is waiting at the d3 pocket on sulphurous with nothing but Zeus 6ts and 5s and srm doomfist everyone who enters. Soooooo much fun.

Edited by ccrider, 09 June 2016 - 05:30 PM.

[Daidachi]

Zimm Kotare, on 06 June 2016 - 11:08 PM, said:

I initially read this as "Moron Salt". Irrespective of the argument taking place, I enjoyed it. Thank you.

You're welcome sir!

I actually thought about crossing that R out using MS paint, but I needed to be quick since I was at work. >.>

[Captain Mittens]

Anyone defending IS quirked out Laser vomit should know it's OP.

Clan Laser vomit was super strong, then it got nerfed, now it's not great. even with 30 DHS a full blast takes you to 75 heat.
Compared to my Black knight, I'm hitting 30% or less, with slightly less dmg, but 1/2 the burn length. Clan range doesn't help because no one is sitting there letting you dump a 1.2s laser burn into them outside of their weapon range. My black knight is structure and agility quirked, so I can twist like crazy and have 10% heat, range and CD on my lasers. Makes the more efficient IS lasers even more so. Combined with the extra capacity from IS heat sinks there's no way a clan laser mech can stand a chance against me once I close the distance.

Hit box is also nuts. Something like a TBR you can shoot CT from like 10 degrees BEHIND the mech. There's no way to shield your ct, let alone ST.

There's a reason why most players are IS, and why the map looks like it does. If people actually wanted balance instead of just having the majority of players faceroll the brave few who join a clan then maybe there would be more clan players and FW might be fun and populated. As is, the crash and brawl style of Invasions favors IS laser vomit. Clan Ballistics come in a close second but are still a far ways off.

Edited by Captain Mittens, 09 June 2016 - 07:38 PM.

[Captain Mittens]

R31Nismoid, on 08 June 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

IS MPL - 220 - 440 (6dmg)
IS LPL - 365 - 700 (11dmg)

cMPL - 330 - 560 (8dmg)
The IS MPL really isn't in the same league and the cMPL fits right in the middle of both the IS really. Don't forget a IS LPL is 5 ton heavier for 3 more dmg/range.

You forget that IS lasers will almost always have their 10% range, heat and CD/duration buffs. The post was also refering to IS ML. so the range is 270 + (10% quirk) so 300, and it has the slower dropoff over range. 5 dmg for 3.6 heat. The LPL is 11 dmg for 6.3 heat over a 0.67 - 0.6s duration. With a faster CD aswell. The 3 LPL black knight takes a **** on anything inside it's optimal range. It's only 33 -48 dmg per shot, but it's like instant, pure CT dmg. You'll rarely score a pure CT hit even with C-MpLs. The c-LPL never.

The quirked IS ML is almost on par with the C-MPL on range, Efficiency, Duration and cooldown. It just doesn't deal as much dmg on the first shot, but for the weight, you can have twice as many IS MLs.

And the IS LpL wrecks the C MPL by a landslide.

Edited by Captain Mittens, 09 June 2016 - 07:57 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Captain Mittens, on 09 June 2016 - 07:53 PM, said:

You forget that IS lasers will almost always have their 10% range, heat and CD/duration buffs. The post was also refering to IS ML. so the range is 270 + (10% quirk) so 300, and it has the slower dropoff over range. 5 dmg for 3.6 heat. The LPL is 11 dmg for 6.3 heat over a 0.67 - 0.6s duration. With a faster CD aswell. The 3 LPL black knight takes a **** on anything inside it's optimal range. It's only 33 -48 dmg per shot, but it's like instant, pure CT dmg. You'll rarely score a pure CT hit even with C-MpLs. The c-LPL never.

So go take your BK and school all those terribads in comp play who left the laservomit like 2 months ago.

Also why none of the good teams playing Clans can make any headway, right?

It's not just that you're wrong it's that you're demonstratively wrong. Pick the ST off the BK at 400m. The BLK on cool maps is a solid threat to most TBR builds, though the MPL boat will settle his hash pretty effectively with comparable pilots unless the BLK can force the TBR to stay at long range trades.

It has 2 shots to overheat or its underpowered compared to dakka builds. It trades longevity for precision. Nobody is having an issue with them.

Captain Mittens, on 09 June 2016 - 07:53 PM, said:

You forget that IS lasers will almost always have their 10% range, heat and CD/duration buffs. The post was also refering to IS ML. so the range is 270 + (10% quirk) so 300, and it has the slower dropoff over range. 5 dmg for 3.6 heat. The LPL is 11 dmg for 6.3 heat over a 0.67 - 0.6s duration. With a faster CD aswell. The 3 LPL black knight takes a **** on anything inside it's optimal range. It's only 33 -48 dmg per shot, but it's like instant, pure CT dmg. You'll rarely score a pure CT hit even with C-MpLs. The c-LPL never.

So go take your BK and school all those terribads in comp play who left the laservomit like 2 months ago.

Also why none of the good teams playing Clans can make any headway, right?

It's not just that you're wrong it's that you're demonstratively wrong. Pick the ST off the BK at 400m. The BLK on cool maps is a solid threat to most TBR builds, though the MPL boat will settle his hash pretty effectively with comparable pilots unless the BLK can force the TBR to stay at long range trades.

It has 2 shots to overheat or its underpowered compared to dakka builds. It trades longevity for precision. Nobody is having an issue with them.

Captain Mittens, on 09 June 2016 - 07:53 PM, said:

You forget that IS lasers will almost always have their 10% range, heat and CD/duration buffs. The post was also refering to IS ML. so the range is 270 + (10% quirk) so 300, and it has the slower dropoff over range. 5 dmg for 3.6 heat. The LPL is 11 dmg for 6.3 heat over a 0.67 - 0.6s duration. With a faster CD aswell. The 3 LPL black knight takes a **** on anything inside it's optimal range. It's only 33 -48 dmg per shot, but it's like instant, pure CT dmg. You'll rarely score a pure CT hit even with C-MpLs. The c-LPL never.

So go take your BK and school all those terribads in comp play who left the laservomit like 2 months ago.

Also why none of the good teams playing Clans can make any headway, right?

It's not just that you're wrong it's that you're demonstratively wrong. Pick the ST off the BK at 400m. The BLK on cool maps is a solid threat to most TBR builds, though the MPL boat will settle his hash pretty effectively with comparable pilots unless the BLK can force the TBR to stay at long range trades.

It has 2 shots to overheat or its underpowered compared to dakka builds. It trades longevity for precision. Nobody is having an issue with them.

[Husker Dude]

Captain Mittens, on 09 June 2016 - 07:12 PM, said:

There's a reason why most players are IS, and why the map looks like it does. If people actually wanted balance instead of just having the majority of players faceroll the brave few who join a clan then maybe there would be more clan players and FW might be fun and populated. As is, the crash and brawl style of Invasions favors IS laser vomit. Clan Ballistics come in a close second but are still a far ways off.

I don't know if I can think of a time when the majority of the population wasn't on the IS side, though, even when Clan had every advantage.

[Stormbringer13]

cernorama, on 06 June 2016 - 01:13 PM, said:

Lately its the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over. (you see where i am going with this?) They rush with laser vomit , wipe you out and then hold drop zone hostage and you drop. the over abundance of Laser Vomit builds is ungodly, it seems that all the IS carries now or the SRM oxide build that kills you with 3 blasts.

Frankly its getting old and boring and starting to be not worth playing cause it's not worth playing a game that you get your *** kicked 90% of the time, not cause the IS pilots are any better, but cause they have great builds to use to their advantage and every laser vomit rapefest I see hasn't had much of a counter to prevent it from happening.

IS can't seem to do anything different to win just, rush, laser vomit, rinse and repeat and PGI doesn't seem to have done anything to make game play to prevent this.

funny thing is, I'm IS and I've had CJF do the exact same thing to me multiple times. first time I had it happen to me was before you even posted this, so maybe we learned it from the Clans? ever think of that?

[Baulven]

See that's funny to me. The faction play maps (i.e. the game mode actually being discussed) has very rare moments that engagement ranges don't favor IS brawl usually between 300-500 meters. I can think of a handful of maps and spots that clan can effectively defend your objective outside of this range, and none at the ranges clan would prefer 900-1k meters. But you know it must obviously be because I don't play and have no skills, not because things are tilted in IS favor.

As a ride note has I was wrong on the 30% now the top tier mechs have 15-20% due to stacking bonuses.

[Husker Dude]

Baulven, on 10 June 2016 - 06:15 AM, said:

As a ride note has I was wrong on the 30% now the top tier mechs have 15-20% due to stacking bonuses.

Still wrong, the top tier mechs have 10% at most. Thunderbolts are not the top tier anymore, it's all Black Knights and Warhammers, and none of those have more than 10%.

[Baulven]

Husker Dude, on 10 June 2016 - 06:20 AM, said:

Still wrong, the top tier mechs have 10% at most. Thunderbolts are not the top tier anymore, it's all Black Knights and Warhammers, and none of those have more than 10%.

You are aware that things like 5 percent large laser range on the stalker stack with the 10% all energy weapons increased range for all energy weapons right? Yes they don't have a flat bonus above 10% but that is why things like the meta exist.

Edited by Baulven, 10 June 2016 - 08:23 AM.

[Husker Dude]

If you're worried about LL Stalkers and think those are the overwhelming mechs you'll find in CW, you haven't been playing for about a year. Large lasers aren't the meta.

Edited out the "and a half", too hyperbolic.

Edited by Husker Dude, 10 June 2016 - 08:42 AM.

[Feral Goose]

You know, if IS mechs actually suffered ghost heat penalty for using 3 Lrg. Laser / ER lg. Laser / Lrg. Pulse laser, as the clan does...........................

Edited by Feral Goose, 10 June 2016 - 09:28 AM.

[Baulven]

Husker Dude, on 10 June 2016 - 08:33 AM, said:

If you're worried about LL Stalkers and think those are the overwhelming mechs you'll find in CW, you haven't been playing for about a year. Large lasers aren't the meta.

Edited out the "and a half", too hyperbolic.

I was using the stalker as an example. I guarantee there are other mechs on the lists that have additional bonuses past 10% that is just one that I knew off the top of my head had it.

[AssaultPig]

very few IS mechs get energy range bonuses larger than 10%, and none of them afaik are considered 'meta' choices (the 5SS still gets a big bonus for Mpls, and a couple stalkers and battlemasters get 15% bonuses to specific weapons.)

your black knights, grasshoppers, warhammers, etc. all get 10% generic range bonuses.

Edited by AssaultPig, 10 June 2016 - 10:03 AM.

[Karl the Plumber]

Armando, on 06 June 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

The answer is simple: WOULD YOU LIKE TO BUY A MECHPACK?

LOLOLOL
the funniest thing here is that when i read this and laughed I thought hey you know what maybe I'll finally buy that BJ pack today.

[Crockdaddy]

Captain Mittens, on 09 June 2016 - 07:12 PM, said:

Anyone defending IS quirked out Laser vomit should know it's OP.

Clan Laser vomit was super strong, then it got nerfed, now it's not great. even with 30 DHS a full blast takes you to 75 heat.
Compared to my Black knight, I'm hitting 30% or less, with slightly less dmg, but 1/2 the burn length. Clan range doesn't help because no one is sitting there letting you dump a 1.2s laser burn into them outside of their weapon range. My black knight is structure and agility quirked, so I can twist like crazy and have 10% heat, range and CD on my lasers. Makes the more efficient IS lasers even more so. Combined with the extra capacity from IS heat sinks there's no way a clan laser mech can stand a chance against me once I close the distance.

Hit box is also nuts. Something like a TBR you can shoot CT from like 10 degrees BEHIND the mech. There's no way to shield your ct, let alone ST.

There's a reason why most players are IS, and why the map looks like it does. If people actually wanted balance instead of just having the majority of players faceroll the brave few who join a clan then maybe there would be more clan players and FW might be fun and populated. As is, the crash and brawl style of Invasions favors IS laser vomit. Clan Ballistics come in a close second but are still a far ways off.

Pretty sure this is why you almost only see Clan Mechs in comp play ... because obviously clan mechs are awful and have no role in "meh warrior" ... I give up I can't fix stupid.

The truth is, the answer for mech OP is ... IT DEPENDS ... on rock paper scissors.

Range vs Mech Build vs Opponent competency.

Crap I hate LRMs (because the seriously suck) but sometimes I get slaughtered by them in the right situation. It is the rock paper scissor effect.