289 replies to this topic

[Moldur]

It would be hard to detect and ban all macros. It is just something we have to live with. Disabling macros via the anticheat system would be the only realistic solution.

Whether or not macros are unfair? Well, riding the line on the firing intervals without activating ghost heat on double taps for clan ultra autocannons requires some time to master manually.

It seems stupid on PGI's part to even have there be a discrepancy between double tap and ghost heat activation time when they simultaneously allow people using macros to time their firing intervals exactly to avoid ghost heat. Why bother making a mechanic and allowing a bypass instead of just redoing the mechanic? Oh that's right, PGI. They're probably sitting in their office watching interns smash their heads into keyboards and stapling papers to their foreheads while complimenting them with "wow, you know how to code? That looks hard." Just change a freaking number on a spreadsheet for Pete's sake, and we will have already fixed half of people's issue with macros.

Garfuncle, on 07 June 2016 - 12:18 AM, said:

Hasn't PGI outright stated Macros are perfectly acceptable? It's not manipulating game files, its adjusting your own computers key/mouse inputs.Huge difference.

Depending on the game or situation, it can be a huge advantage. MWO is not at the front of the line on that issue, but your argument does not stand in a general sense if your point is that macros are fair. If I were playing a fighting game and made a macro where at the press of a button, I did a 30 hit combo instead of having to manually input each move, most people would call me a cheater.

Maybe I have a macro that, at the press of a button, makes me twist my torso at max speed back and forth before recentering exactly where I was aiming before. I could do that manually if I want, sure, but is being able to do it perfectly and without fail every time fair?



As far as the gauss thing goes, that should honestly be a check box in the settings....

Edited by Moldur, 07 June 2016 - 12:43 AM.

[Corrado]

i personally dont use macros, but if someone with macros did kill you, would probably have done the same without.
Macros aren't an issue. get better.

[PyckenZot]

El Bandito, on 07 June 2016 - 12:25 AM, said:

Ain't my fault that my gaming mouse has higher function than that of average pleb's. I guess people are accusing me of P2W.

I play with Razer Tartarus and a R.A.T. 7,... I guess that makes me a cheater compared to the plebs using a small keyboard and 2 button microsoft mouse

FuDawg, on 07 June 2016 - 12:27 AM, said:

If you can't aim I suppose it might hurt but if you can, it'd make firing a Guass Rifle a TEENY bit easier since you don't have to hold and release. It would also be consistent... a macro never accidentally holds too long etc. Aside from that, it's simply not doing it yourself. Much like you don't let MLB players go into the batters box with a radar guided automatic pneumatic bat that swings itself. One way is playing baseball while the other is standing there letting your equipment play for you. However, some of us understand that lesser players will always need something they feel fills that gap. Sad, but very true.

I now believe you must either be trolling or completely oblivious to how to play this game's mechanics. The hold mechanic on the gauss rifle allows you to make minor adjustments to your shot just before release, allows to hold the shot in case someone runs in front of you, allows to shift target entirely. All options you lose with your macro.

Edited by PyckenZot, 07 June 2016 - 12:34 AM.

[El Bandito]

FuDawg, on 07 June 2016 - 12:30 AM, said:

Oh PUH-LEASE... we can all go buy ******** Macro Mice. Mine has functions most of which I don't use (cuz I don't NEED them LOL). I need movement and 3 buttons, preferably a scroll wheel but I can get by without it Let's see you minus yer fancy mouse

Then people should buy mouse with macro and shut up. I'm using what I legally can and I laugh at all these fools for making a big deal about it.

[Aetes Nakatomi]

PGI please ban anyone with a better keyboard than me, anyone with a better mouse than me, anyone with a better PC than me, anyone with a better monitor than me... is all I see when I hear the moaning about macros.

My guess is he got clowned by an AC2 king crab and assumed Macro, was too stupid to get out of the way and tried to face tank it. I am tired of bads moaning about macros when the actual problem is that they did something stupid and it also could have been given someone using multi chain firegroups (FYI looks just like a macro I done right).

[Garfuncle]

That's semantics, not relevant, Macros have been a thing in PC gaming since time immemorial. PGI would be insane 'banning' them as it would further alienate a niche playerbase. It's also impossible for them to detect unless you are using the obvious minigun ac one and someone records proof of it. If I happen to have good timing with my Gauss will I get banned for a suspected macro?

[Moldur]

If not having macros makes you a trash, pleb player, and macros don't give any unfair advantage (read: any advantage,) then what is contradiction?

[Garfuncle]

The point still stands that unless the macro is the obvious (and dubious on effectiveness) ac minigun then they are impossible to detect or otherwise prove without doubt they are being used. Attempting to enforce no macros would lead to the possibility of players being unjustly banned because of their skill. That is unacceptable and why it will never happen.

[FuDawg]

Garfuncle, on 07 June 2016 - 12:53 AM, said:

The point still stands that unless the macro is the obvious (and dubious on effectiveness) ac minigun then they are impossible to detect or otherwise prove without doubt they are being used. Attempting to enforce no macros would lead to the possibility of players being unjustly banned because of their skill. That is unacceptable and why it will never happen.

I won't argue those points. What I might suggest is if they can't ban/police such a ban...perhaps they could put macro function into the game itself? Then all would at least have the OPTION to use roughly what anyone else can. Aside from that I don't really care. I play how I play regardless of how others do and I just don't need Macros nor a pricey keyboard (unless you count that Razor hand pad as pricey but... I don't use no macro functions on it, just like the shape better). Either way I can respect no all will feel that way, I just have a hard time understanding how anyone can "NOT" feel that way. I mean... either you do it or... you program something to literally do it for you... how anyone sees those things as equal... meh I don't get it but I only care enough to echo the OPs very correct desire.

Edited by FuDawg, 07 June 2016 - 01:00 AM.

[The Basilisk]

Nyte Kitsune, on 06 June 2016 - 10:55 PM, said:

Please.. enough with the damn macros, I prefer that this be a skill based game not a game based on gimmics and hacks. Please ban the use of these so that matches are fair not aimed to those willing to cheat just because they don't like the game's mechanics. If you don't like the games mechanics, there's the door, let it hit you on the way out.

I wonder if you even realize that there are no ingame macros...
So any ....*Macros* there are, are either integrated into mouse or joystick doing nothing more than optimizign the timing of your button pushes and / or doing a bit of automation to unpractical or convoluted game mechanics.

And ... no there is no way to make a gauss rifle to just fire with a single klick....it still has a charge up time and wont fire by *simply clicking* the only thing this macro takes away is your beeing able to charge abort or overcharge abort the gauss or using the gauss with propper timing in med range fights where adjusted charge timing is crucial to use it while twisting.
Again a *T5 feature* much like LRMs.

So basicaly there ARE downsides in using macros since many percived downsisides you are avoiding by using macros are actually usefull features for the better players. Macros simplyfy things but simplification isn't allways a good thing.

Edited by The Basilisk, 07 June 2016 - 01:04 AM.

[dervishx5]

Aetes Nakatomi, on 07 June 2016 - 12:34 AM, said:

[FuDawg]

The Basilisk, on 07 June 2016 - 01:04 AM, said:

I wonder if you even realize that there are no ingame macros...
So any ....*Macros* there are, are either integrated into mouse or joystick doing nothing more than optimizign the timing of your button pushes and / or doing a bit of automation to unpractical or convoluted game mechanics.

And ... no there is no way to make a gauss rifle to just fire with a single klick....it still has a charge up time and wont fire by *simply clicking* the only thing this macro takes away is your beeing able to charge abort or overcharge abort the gauss or using the gauss with propper timing in med range fights where adjusted charge timing is crucial to use it while twisting.
Again a *T5 feature* much like LRMs.

So basicaly there ARE downsides in using macros since many percived downsisides you are avoiding by using macros are actually usefull features for the better players. Macros simplyfy things but simplification isn't allways a good thing.

I don't mean to be rude but it was completely obvious from the start OP was not referring to in game but via Mice, Keyboards, etc so yeah I am pretty sure he realizes what you try to point out for no good reason.

As for the Gauss Rifle firing with one click, IF you use a Macro there CERTAINLY IS. It's not rocket science. Set Macro at click to click and hold for 2 seconds and release and voila a one click gauss rifle firing. Also if you feel the only way to fire a Gauss is while turning I am very happy for you but it's really not. Like all weapons there are times you'll be twisting your *** off and times you won't. As for aborting, yes you would lose that option however you'd also lose EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE of ever holding it too long etc. You gain a level of consistency that is difficult at best for a a human being.

Now... again you can debate the effectiveness of that or any other Macro all you like. Other have made much better points in the fact of how would you ENFORCE any such thing... and to that I noted maybe they COULD put the macro function in game and ergo level the playing field Then again, in the end, I don't really care. Come at me macros or not and we'll scrap it out

[XtremWarrior]

Nyte Kitsune, on 06 June 2016 - 10:55 PM, said:

Please.. enough with the damn macros, I prefer that this be a skill based game not a game based on gimmics and hacks. Please ban the use of these so that matches are fair not aimed to those willing to cheat just because they don't like the game's mechanics. If you don't like the games mechanics, there's the door, let it hit you on the way out.

Or just put some macro editor in the game - so everyone can use them.

I mean, if you have enough buttons on your mouse, you can already achieve what most macros are used for: avoid ghost heat or make ACs fire a constant stream of bullets (by firing multiple chain-firing groups).

Wanna ban people with a 8 buttons mouse because it's unfair against those who have only 2?



(Disclaimer: i'm too lazy and/or not good enough to see the OPness of macros in this game, so i havent try them)

Edited by XtremWarrior, 07 June 2016 - 01:52 AM.

[LordNothing]

i keep getting accused of using macros when i run my quad 10 kodiak. what im really doing is putting them into 2 groups of 2, putting them in chain fire, and frantically spamming the buttons.

as much as ive wanted to try macro software (or hardware), ive really never needed to. maybe when i get arthritis.

Edited by LordNothing, 07 June 2016 - 01:55 AM.

[Tarogato]

I actually built a lego robot that can push the keys on my auxiliary keypad and I use it to chainfire my 6x AC/2 King Crab.

Go ahead, ban me for it.

Or maybe I just do it with my own fingers, because I'm a pianist and fine finger coordination is second nature to me.

Or maybe I don't even own a King Crab, and I think macros are pointless, and the people that complain about them are simply looking for excuses rather than accepting that maybe they screwed up and the enemy having a macro had absolutely no bearing on the outcome of the scenario.

[FuDawg]

Tarogato, on 07 June 2016 - 02:01 AM, said:

I actually built a lego robot that can push the keys on my auxiliary keypad and I use it to chainfire my 6x AC/2 King Crab.

Go ahead, ban me for it.

Or maybe I just do it with my own fingers, because I'm a pianist and fine finger coordination is second nature to me.

Or maybe I don't even own a King Crab, and I think macros are pointless, and the people that complain about them are simply looking for excuses rather than accepting that maybe they screwed up and the enemy having a macro had absolutely no bearing on the outcome of the scenario.

That was a **** answer but it was funny as hell

[Naryck]

about 6xAC/2 macros:
I was using ac/2 macros for fun. on 2 good matches (DMG > 500) I had like 10 bad matches (DMG < 250) and 3-4 not very good, but not-a-fail matches (DMG ~350-400)
6xAC/2 crab is just a joke. you cant stand even against heavy with 3 AC/5 on that crab, it will kill you faster, then you will scratch his armor. also it's not a match for normal assaults, who kill you in 2-3 alphas. it's not a match for lights (especially those with SRMs). it's not a match for laservomit heavies, because they put all their huge damage in one point within a second. basically 6xAC/2 crab is useful in a couple of maps in couple of places, like a tunnel on crimson strait map. and versus mediums or damaged enemies. but even some mediums are a threat to this clown build, like bj-1x with a 42 pinpoint alpha. it wil kill you one on one if you meet at 200-300 meters. you could have a chance if you going towards each other from the distance 1500 meters and he is just going forward on a plain surface. here - yes, you will kill him easily. but again, if this medium have 2 (ER)LLs and can hide, pop out, make alpha and hide again - you lose

so you all must be talking about some other macro

Edited by Naryck, 07 June 2016 - 02:21 AM.

[Bobzilla]

They should redo the weapon group/chain into a macro system.

[Jetdrag]

Try macros first and see what they do for you. I have and they have a marginal effect on gameplay. They definitely do not make you a better player and do not offer a noticeable advantage.

[TercieI]

FuDawg, on 07 June 2016 - 01:21 AM, said:

I don't mean to be rude but it was completely obvious from the start OP was not referring to in game but via Mice, Keyboards, etc so yeah I am pretty sure he realizes what you try to point out for no good reason.

As for the Gauss Rifle firing with one click, IF you use a Macro there CERTAINLY IS. It's not rocket science. Set Macro at click to click and hold for 2 seconds and release and voila a one click gauss rifle firing. Also if you feel the only way to fire a Gauss is while turning I am very happy for you but it's really not. Like all weapons there are times you'll be twisting your *** off and times you won't. As for aborting, yes you would lose that option however you'd also lose EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE of ever holding it too long etc. You gain a level of consistency that is difficult at best for a a human being.

Now... again you can debate the effectiveness of that or any other Macro all you like. Other have made much better points in the fact of how would you ENFORCE any such thing... and to that I noted maybe they COULD put the macro function in game and ergo level the playing field Then again, in the end, I don't really care. Come at me macros or not and we'll scrap it out

This misinformed and misunderstanding post refutes any argument you might be making. You'll still have the charge up window and will be surrendering significant control. The gauss is not even hard to use effectively. Why gimp it?