Jump to content

Pgi Ban Macros


289 replies to this topic

#221 Mystere

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 22,783 posts
  • LocationClassified

Posted 09 June 2016 - 02:02 PM

View PostHelene de Montfort, on 09 June 2016 - 01:58 PM, said:

As i already said, if macros are necessary in the game, they should be included in the client...


Which I predict will then lead to:

View PostMystere, on 09 June 2016 - 01:28 PM, said:

Ah, RIFT!

It's the game in which people actually loudly cried and whined about it's own built-in macro system. The developers created it so that everyone was on an even ground. But unfortunately for so many, they soon realized that they were absolutely clueless on how to fully take advantage of such a system while at the same time being regularly pummeled by those who did. They thus demanded that it be removed from the game.


Will history repeat itself?

People should really be careful what they wish for. <maniacal Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image>

#222 Darth Hotz

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • General
  • General
  • 459 posts
  • LocationOuter Rim of Berlin

Posted 09 June 2016 - 02:02 PM

PGI cant not ban macros because every gaming keyboard or mouse has a macro option. How do you want to recognize the use of macros?

I mean, they are challenged enough with identifying cheat tools and I doubt that they have this under control as the claim they have.

#223 Mavairo

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Liquid Metal
  • Liquid Metal
  • 2,251 posts

Posted 09 June 2016 - 02:38 PM

View PostHelene de Montfort, on 09 June 2016 - 01:58 PM, said:


The only point you have made, is that in this game you need to use macro or use expensive hardware to "git gud"... So, the point you made is that the game is extremely badly designed and that it's controls are so bad that without special mouse and keyboard, you can't play effectively. Thx, we already knew that.

Guess what? Your expensive hardware doesn't help you. It does help you with a dozen weapon groups and what not only if you design your mech that way. I design my mechs so i can group my weapons in three groups for max effectiveness, and that's it. And i'm not even boating, my fav are the marauders on which i use PPC, AC2, MPL, MG, with only three groups. In order to not have to juggle with weapons because of ghost heat, i design my mechs so they are, in fact, heat efficients. I have no problem with people using expensive hardware so they can overcome the shortcomings of their mech designs. The point is, you can design your mechs so you don't need this kind of equipment.

However, this has nothing to do with macros. Macros are mostly used to improve dps by replacing the manual input of players with automated key input. What's the difference? That's easy to understand, if you take one of my mechs that are designed for use with weapons in three groups only while staying rerlatively heat efficient, using the same mech design with any gaming mouse won't change anything. Because the design isn't dependant on that hardware to be used. But if you use macros to use the exact same design, you will improve your DPS, because it will allow you to use all these weapons at best efficiency regarding cooldown and ghostheat. Your gaming mouse doesn't help with that. Macros does, among other things. Same for Gauss, you can optimize your dps by never wasting time firing them. And that's a big advantage. You can also automatize many other things. You don't have to design your mechs to be heat efficient anymore, all you have to do, is to program your macro to make it heat efficient.

As i already said, if macros are necessary in the game, they should be included in the client... Otherwise, the game should be made so using macros doesn't benefit as much as it does. Hardware isn't an issue, because the game already allow to bypass the advantage it gives. Macros is one, because the game make nothing to cancel the advantage they give.


Special keyboard? First off, you can play this game with any El Cheapo keyboard you want to. Second, it's just the mouse.
So you make mechs and fire in a 2X2 at best config, with maybe an alpha strike.

Rather than actually utilize the full suite of fire keys available to you..and you think this some how doesn't put you at a disadvantage to someone with 6 possible weapon groups.
Plus, every other secondary function such as UAV, ECM, Air/Artillery Strikes etc, ALL being at the end of a thumb.

Yes you can build mechs that don't fully use their hardpoints. Or Chainfire (lol) your groups.

The only point I made, is that macros aren't the only way to have an advantage. My hardware, Fact gives me an edge you do not apparently have. I can manage more weapons and options, without limiting my builds. I can work around ghost heat in it's entirety, and still manage every secondary feature the mechs have to offer.

And oh yes, my mouse does help with ghost heat. I can group weapons in a way to avoid ghost heat, and manage the CDs to not spike it. It's no different than a macro doing it, other than one just lets you hold down the key, and it handles it automatically. That's not a substantial edge, even casual knowledge of the mechanics will enable you to evade the dreaded ghost heat.

Weapongroupings, and secondary features on the other hand? that the Naga lets happen on the fly? Dude, that's where the bread and butter is. And Macros don't help those.

By the way the interface isn't badly designed. It's no different than any MMO in the regard that it has more features than a Cheapo Mouse has features. Just about any given mmo on the market has 36 abilities to manage on the fly. This game is actually fairly light on the keys demanded, all things considered. That's hardly a hallmark of a bad game design decision.

However that doesn't necessarily mean the advantages of having 12 buttons on the side of the mouse alone isn't a good advantage. I've got a use for every one of those keys in this game.

The only thing a Macro would do for me, is automatically managing ghost heat for me.

Look, we get it, you hate special equipment, and macros. You think it's a Cheat, and that its' Not Fair™ that people would DARE, use hardware or software to stream line the interface process, or that they would DARE use more than a couple of weapons on a mech chassis....like they do in every freaking game known to man, that has more than a mindless point and click, with maybe 3 buttons being used.

You aren't getting it..and probably never will. Because frankly, you can't see past your insecurities.
Macros don't break the game. They don't let you do anything (other than having an Automatic Tag which is clearly OP Posted Image ) you couldn't already do in this game... or frankly any other game.

Also if you would like me to take the Superior Tone you are attempting to adopt... I don't think anyone should listen to a guy who is willingly using AC2s.

Edited by Mavairo, 09 June 2016 - 02:40 PM.


#224 Helene de Montfort

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Urban Commando
  • Urban Commando
  • 262 posts
  • Twitch: Link
  • LocationPays de Loire

Posted 09 June 2016 - 02:46 PM

View PostMavairo, on 09 June 2016 - 02:38 PM, said:


blah blah blah




Well, obviously, you have problem with text comprehension. Too bad you can't use a macro for that, hey? You totally misundertood what i was saying, and are reacting to thing i never said. That's quite funny actually.

What can i say? I don't think you will understand anyway, either you can't, or you just don't want to.

#225 Moldur

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Philanthropist
  • Philanthropist
  • 2,234 posts

Posted 09 June 2016 - 02:51 PM

View PostDarth Hotz, on 09 June 2016 - 02:02 PM, said:

PGI [...]

I mean, they are challenged enough


true.

#226 VitriolicViolet

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Corsair
  • The Corsair
  • 592 posts
  • LocationAustralia, Melbourne

Posted 09 June 2016 - 02:54 PM

honestly who cares? im surprised at the amount of concern.

Any way you can replicate the 6AC2 KGC macro by grouping tha ACs into 2s and chainfiring them.
Then just click and hold each button in quick succession and youve done it not that its that good really.

If anything having crap internet is way worse, i live in Australia and at best get 250 ping

Actually if people really cared about 'fairness' and 'level playing field' then you should only be able to use standardised computers and equipment with a ping handicap to equalise everyone, because so many people would love that. I have a crap 6 year old laptop on top of that ping and i still have fun

Edited: by the way ive never used macros, just heard the sound of machine ACs.

Edited by Violet Vitriol Price, 09 June 2016 - 03:35 PM.


#227 Scout Derek

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Infernal
  • The Infernal
  • 8,016 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • Twitch: Link
  • LocationSomewhere where you'll probably never go to

Posted 09 June 2016 - 03:03 PM

View PostHelene de Montfort, on 09 June 2016 - 02:46 PM, said:



Well, obviously, you have problem with text comprehension. Too bad you can't use a macro for that, hey? You totally misundertood what i was saying, and are reacting to thing i never said. That's quite funny actually.

What can i say? I don't think you will understand anyway, either you can't, or you just don't want to.


What I pulled from your argument is that Marcos allow you to ease the tension of having multiple groups being put into one, which makes it easier to aim and less tasks to do when firing or aiming, and is thus cheating because if someone cannot do a normal function such as rapid clicking which may or may not hinder performance as a pilot.


What I pulled from the other argument Mavairo is that Marcos don't matter still to him if they're banned or not, because if they are banned, he will have the upper edge.


This all started because Mavairo stated that the ban won't affect him, while Helene didn't like it that Mavairo stated the fact that the ban won't matter if it happens or not because he feels comfortable using his multi button mouse and doesn't have to use Marcos. Then Helene went into comparing tech price, which I will say,

where did that come from? was it because he showed his mouse, and you took it as "I have this pricey mouse with all these buttons, so I don't care if it affects me or not."? and you didn't like that he was showing off?

This is what I'm seeing, that's all, I refute to say anything more about the issue at hand other than saving me from carpel tunnel.

Edited by Procurator Derek, 09 June 2016 - 03:06 PM.


#228 Mystere

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 22,783 posts
  • LocationClassified

Posted 09 June 2016 - 03:11 PM

View PostProcurator Derek, on 09 June 2016 - 03:03 PM, said:

This is what I'm seeing, that's all, I refute to say anything more about the issue at hand other than saving me from carpel tunnel.


Well at least you are thinking in more practical terms. Posted Image

#229 Scout Derek

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Infernal
  • The Infernal
  • 8,016 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • Twitch: Link
  • LocationSomewhere where you'll probably never go to

Posted 09 June 2016 - 03:16 PM

View PostMystere, on 09 June 2016 - 03:11 PM, said:


Well at least you are thinking in more practical terms. Posted Image


I have to or else people think favouritism. Carpel Tunnel comes from no other than: Repetitive Motion.

guess what you are doing when you are clicking rapidly 2-3 of the same buttons? Repetitive Motion.



#230 LegendaryArticuno

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 664 posts

Posted 09 June 2016 - 03:21 PM

SMH, so many ****** cheaters in this thread...

Then they complain Alphas are too high.

#231 Mavairo

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Liquid Metal
  • Liquid Metal
  • 2,251 posts

Posted 09 June 2016 - 03:38 PM

View PostHelene de Montfort, on 09 June 2016 - 02:46 PM, said:



Well, obviously, you have problem with text comprehension. Too bad you can't use a macro for that, hey? You totally misundertood what i was saying, and are reacting to thing i never said. That's quite funny actually.

What can i say? I don't think you will understand anyway, either you can't, or you just don't want to.



I have no comprehension issues, you on the other hand are butt hurt with the fact you are butt hurt, because there is no advantage macros deliver in this game aside from Perma Tag, and for the uttermost lacking in fire discipline...evading ghost heat.

You are also butt hurt, because I can actually build mechs that utilize more than a hand full of weapons, without leaving WASD, effecting my aim, while simultaneously using, ECM, UAVS etc.

It's not my fault you are having issues with the UI and are unwilling to seek tools, or to help your issues.
It's not my fault that you feel like it's cheating to use your words "A horrible game!", that someone can rebind keys, in order to maximize their experience.

It's not my fault you are literally incapable of seeing how having the entire host of the game's most commonly used features, at the touch of one thumb as an advantage. Or that it's acceptable.

It's not my fault, because the game does not enable this by default (and guess what chuckles, it does. You have to rebind the keys. In THEORY you could rebind every secondary function in weapon groups as well as ECM, UAV, Strikes to keys neighboring WASD. However that still does not grant you the edge, in having the complete freedom of movement of having functionality on one hand, and movement on the other. (while operating push to talk, jump jets etc which I also rebound to keys on my board near WASD.)

But then,, you use AC2s.

Maybe you should stop feeling insecure about your lack of manhood Chuckles, because someone has prettier hardware than you, or the sense to use it, for their convenience.

Edited by Mavairo, 09 June 2016 - 03:39 PM.


#232 Mystere

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 22,783 posts
  • LocationClassified

Posted 09 June 2016 - 04:05 PM

View PostLegendaryArticuno, on 09 June 2016 - 03:21 PM, said:

cheaters


I don't think you comprehend at all the meaning of that word.

#233 Mole

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 3,314 posts
  • LocationAt work, cutting up brains for a living.

Posted 09 June 2016 - 06:12 PM

View PostLegendaryArticuno, on 09 June 2016 - 03:21 PM, said:

SMH, so many ****** cheaters in this thread...

Then they complain Alphas are too high.

Hey bud. I don't think you and my good friend Reality have been properly introduced.

#234 Andi Nagasia

    Volunteer Moderator

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 5,982 posts

Posted 09 June 2016 - 08:02 PM

View PostLegendaryArticuno, on 09 June 2016 - 03:21 PM, said:

SMH, so many ****** cheaters in this thread...

Then they complain Alphas are too high.

um anything a Macro can do a person can do, correct?
so why would they be banned? if its because it gives a person the Advantage?
Special Mouses/Keyboards HighRes-Monitors those can give similar Advantages?
so would those have to be Banned as well, i mean just to be fair?

it seems many Asking for Macros to be Banned only see them as Cheating because they dont use them,
so if they dont use them, then no one should use them, and they should be banned because of this?

heres the Catch,
the so called Advantage from a Gaming Mouse costs Money,
the so called Advantage from a HighRes Screen Costs Money,
the so called Advantage from a Gaming Computer Costs Money,
the so called Advantage from Marcos? are free,

so unless you are Planing to Ban Everything, Macros shouldnt be banned,
its people wanting something Banned because they dont use it so no one should,

edit-
@Procurator Derek
i liked Scout Derek better, just letting you know,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 09 June 2016 - 08:03 PM.


#235 Scout Derek

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Infernal
  • The Infernal
  • 8,016 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • Twitch: Link
  • LocationSomewhere where you'll probably never go to

Posted 09 June 2016 - 08:23 PM

View PostAndi Nagasia, on 09 June 2016 - 08:02 PM, said:

edit-
@Procurator Derek
i liked Scout Derek better, just letting you know,


Procurator for now because of the way the forums have been acting lately; I do have to manage other's affairs, no? And with the way the forums are looking lately, it's no surprise.

#236 Kael Posavatz

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Philanthropist
  • 971 posts
  • LocationOn a quest to find the Star League

Posted 09 June 2016 - 08:34 PM

View PostProcurator Derek, on 09 June 2016 - 08:23 PM, said:



Procurator for now because of the way the forums have been acting lately; I do have to manage other's affairs, no? And with the way the forums are looking lately, it's no surprise.


Depends, if it is a Roman Procurator, the forums are pretty grim.

If it is a Communist China Procurator...

#237 Dino Might

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Little Helper
  • Little Helper
  • 2,030 posts

Posted 09 June 2016 - 08:34 PM

I would like someone to actually run some numbers and give objective data.

Show me the build, and test what's the normal DPS without using macros. Then provide the DPS with using macros. No allowance for fudging the data to support one side or the other - you have to show video of the tests.

I will be shocked if the increase in DPS is in any way appreciable such that it could affect normal gameplay.

The arguments against macros seem to be emotionally based and highly assumptive. The arguments for macros are similarly without much substantial evidence. But, I think the burden of proof should be on those who wish them banned. Telling me, "because, I think they should be, because it fits my own personal definition of cheating," is not a compelling argument. Making claims not backed up with any evidence is not a compelling argument. We can go back and forth all year long, but until someone posts some objective information, there's no way to budge anyone out of his respective camp.

#238 STEF_

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Nocturnal
  • The Nocturnal
  • 5,443 posts
  • Locationmy cockpit

Posted 09 June 2016 - 08:36 PM

View PostProcurator Derek, on 09 June 2016 - 08:23 PM, said:

Procurator for now because of the way the forums have been acting lately; I do have to manage other's affairs, no? And with the way the forums are looking lately, it's no surprise.

Of course, you are managing forum affairs.... what else? There is nothing else!


....oh, look.... 3 twitters with promises, yesterday....
and LOW LEVEL promises!! nothing about new mech pack?????

#239 Mystere

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 22,783 posts
  • LocationClassified

Posted 09 June 2016 - 09:14 PM

View PostDino Might, on 09 June 2016 - 08:34 PM, said:

The arguments for macros are similarly without much substantial evidence.


I think you missed a few:
  • avoiding carpal tunnel syndrome and other repetitive strain injuries
  • supporting alternative input devices
  • fun builds
  • quality of life conveniences
I'm sure there are more.

Edited by Mystere, 09 June 2016 - 09:15 PM.


#240 Scout Derek

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Infernal
  • The Infernal
  • 8,016 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • Twitch: Link
  • LocationSomewhere where you'll probably never go to

Posted 09 June 2016 - 09:55 PM

View PostKael Posavatz, on 09 June 2016 - 08:34 PM, said:


Depends, if it is a Roman Procurator, the forums are pretty grim.

If it is a Communist China Procurator...


Would you consider the GD forum friendly? Not really, not much, there's a little bit of it but that's about it. Needs to sharpen up. Just be happy we aren't like some other game forums. the worst I've seen have been from steam, particularly 2K and Street fighter forums on steam. YouTube Toxic Game forums and there's quite a bit you'll find worse than here.

View PostStefka Kerensky, on 09 June 2016 - 08:36 PM, said:

Of course, you are managing forum affairs.... what else? There is nothing else!


....oh, look.... 3 twitters with promises, yesterday....
and LOW LEVEL promises!! nothing about new mech pack?????


All I can say about a mech pack is nothing, as it is confidential information as of now. Low level promises that were said after he was gone for a long time and on the first day he was back.





20 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 20 guests, 0 anonymous users