199 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

So, all of you QQing about the KDK (I noticed there was no QQ over the unseen, which are arguably as strong), tell me why you think this mech is OP. Is it because you see 4+ KDKs on each side for the last 24 hours? Is it because it is less tanky than the Atlas? Is it because it has less focused FLD than the MX90? Is it because it has better mobility?

I am just trying to get a handle on what it is that people perceive to be OP about this mech. It is undoubtedly good, but far from being a showstopper. The loads of KDK pilots turning in 100-200 damage scores can tell you that.

So, elaborate, WHY do YOU think the KDK is, or is not, stronger than the AS7 or MAL?

[Tyler Valentine]

Cause it haz Clantech! Clantech OP in FW!

[Evan20k]

80 damage alpha for 30% heat+Maneuverability.

[Revis Volek]

It isnt stronger then the MAL (id say on par with it) and is no where near as tough as the AS7.


Getting 100-200 dmg in one game doesn't mean squat, you of all peeps know that better them most im sure. But one 1000-2000 dmg game doesn't really mean anything either. But the NS guys i ran with last night were pretty consistently putting up 700-900 no problem. Some still have ammo left and armor to spare.


Nothing you cant do in a MAL or DWF though...

Evan20k, on 18 May 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

80 damage alpha for 30% heat+Maneuverability.

I run a sEXE with a 76 alpha, this isnt really something new to see alphas that high on actual playable builds.

2 LPL and 10 Er smalls, 76 alpha with a crazy cooldown but no range.

[Gas Guzzler]

It isn't. The 3 is capable of more burst DPS than a Mauler when it double taps, (though less burst DPS than a Dire is capable of), but it is at the cost of range and focused PPFLD that the MX90 has. People respond with "What about the quad gauss Kodiak?" which is BS, that is not a comparable build, is as slow as a Dire and cannot come close the DPS of the Mauler. Essentially, they are different tools for different situations.

The Spirit Bear vs the Atlas-S... The Atlas is better at what it does, but the Spirit Bear is more forgiving because it has the agility to disengage. If you are set up correctly, the Atlas is objectively superior, even without the speed and MASC. Again, slightly different tools for different situations. If you know you MUST close as quickly as possible, the Spirit Bear is good, but honestly, it won't out brawl an Atlas-S once in range.

If ANYTHING, I could see the KDK-3 losing its agility quirks. The Mauler doesn't have them either, and with the high hardpoints the KDK has, they are a bit superfluous. I'm not super worried about it, I don't really think about those agility quirks when I am gutting people with 4 UAC10s.

[Gyrok]

Evan20k, on 18 May 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

80 damage alpha for 30% heat+Maneuverability.

Stronger IS version here.

Next in line please.

[Nyte Kitsune]

Honestly, FW Aside, its about even with any other Assault. Dies just as easily as any other assault if focused on, Sure it can mount a lot more guns, but they also run hotter and shut down a lot if you don't manage your heat.

Now in FW.... Not fun to come up against a wall of Kodiaks. My unit is fairly good, but even we lost 2 waves vs their 1 Wave of Kodiaks. As far as FW goes, I think the Clans Drop weight should be lowered so that they have to sacrifice tonnage if they want to run all of those Kodiaks.

[Revis Volek]

Tyler Valentine, on 18 May 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

Cause it haz Clantech! Clantech OP in FW!

We can put this to rest as well, IIC have Clan tech too and they are terrible for the most part (aside from a few Jenner Builds but they are still fragile as glass). Clan tech is not that OP where it will make up for other shortcomings, like Hitboxes, weapons placement, etc.

Clan tech is good, dont get me wrong but its not flatout AMAZINGLY BETTER like most would have us believe. I still fear a Blk Knight in ANY clan mech, even a KDK.

Gyrok, on 18 May 2016 - 11:10 AM, said:

Stronger IS version here.

Next in line please.

I ran that a bunch last night, i can say that the KDK aint got SH*t on my fatlas.

[xWiredx]

Kodiak is OP because it's the only mech that gets scarier when you paint it in pink.

Seriously, though, it isn't much better or worse in any regard than other tier 1/2 assaults. The Stalker still runs cooler with more large lasers, the Mauler's FLD DPS isn't any less impressive now, etc.

I will say that I haven't run a quad UAC10 Kodiak 3 yet, though. I ran it with the 400XL, quad UAC5s, and medium lasers last night and thought it was decent. I ran the Kodiak 1 with what is sure to become the meta: 2LPL and 5MPL (adding that 6th MPL makes it a little too hot). I ran the Spirit Bear near stock. Good impressions overall, but nothing I'd call terribly OP.

[Gas Guzzler]

KDK-1 become the meta? Pass me some of that stuff you are smoking.

[Corrado]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 May 2016 - 11:17 AM, said:

KDK-1 become the meta? Pass me some of that stuff you are smoking.

KDK-1 is really the worst variant. any EXE laserboat is way better.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Comparisons to the Mauler aside, the Kodiak can do a few things better than the Atlas (top speed, cooler all-ballistic loadouts, and laser spam). The Atlas can do some things better than the Kodiak, though (ECM, tanking, torso twisting most cases, some other stuff perhaps)

I cannot quaantify the disparity, though, and collapse it down to a single value of which one is better.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 18 May 2016 - 11:34 AM.

[Roadkill]

Gyrok, on 18 May 2016 - 11:03 AM, said:

Is it because you see 4+ KDKs on each side for the last 24 hours?
...
I am just trying to get a handle on what it is that people perceive to be OP about this mech.

You answered your own question.

And yes, the Unseen were "OP" for the same reason. The Kodiak is just even more popular than those were, and is an Assault carrying Dire Wolf-levels of firepower, so seems more OP en masse than the Unseen did.

For at least a few days, everyone is going to be dying to Kodiaks constantly. Ergo, Kodiak must be OP, right? No... not when half of each team is made up of Kodiaks. Look at the screenshots people have been posting. Yeah, some people are doing really well in Kodiaks, but there are at least as many 200-damage Kodiaks showing up in those games, too.

It's fine. Give it a couple of weeks for the newness to wear off.

[TercieI]

Gyrok, on 18 May 2016 - 11:10 AM, said:

Stronger IS version here.

Next in line please.

I assumed he was talking quad UAC10...

[Bishop Steiner]

Evan20k, on 18 May 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

80 damage alpha for 30% heat+Maneuverability.

if it were PP-FLD mebbe. The fact it's burst means I find the KDK does high dmg, but comparably low Kill Ratio for dmg.

Nyte Kitsune, on 18 May 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

Honestly, FW Aside, its about even with any other Assault. Dies just as easily as any other assault if focused on, Sure it can mount a lot more guns, but they also run hotter and shut down a lot if you don't manage your heat.

Now in FW.... Not fun to come up against a wall of Kodiaks. My unit is fairly good, but even we lost 2 waves vs their 1 Wave of Kodiaks. As far as FW goes, I think the Clans Drop weight should be lowered so that they have to sacrifice tonnage if they want to run all of those Kodiaks.

you realize that to run 100 tonners means they do pretty well scrap the rest of their deck for true effectiveness? Crows ain't the FW terrors they once were.

Also, go do an IS Dropdeck with 12 Boarsheads or AS7-S and you'll get a similar result. (And also, against a better built opfor deck, lose, just like 12 KDK can and do)

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

While the KDK is good (even best Clan assault, IMO) it's definitely not OP.

I'd say the KDK-3 is about on par with a Dakka Mauler, what it lacks in PPFLD it makes up for in sheer volume of firepower. The hardpoint location is also a lot nicer on the KDK-3 than the MAL.

I'd say the Spirit Bear is almost but not quite on par with an Atlas. In AS7-S/D-DC vs Spirit Bear, Atlas all day. I will say that the Spirit Bear is the second best brawler in game though behind the Atlas, that speed and MASC makes it a scary mofo and when one goes Drop Bear on you, it's hard to get away. MASC also makes a bit more forgiving than Atlas in positioning errors.

I saw a few standard Gaussvomit KDKs that did... acceptably. One of my buddies was rolling a 2x Goose, 2x cLPL, and 2x cERML and he said it was a whale that traded a cERML for a lot more speed.

But other than the KDK-3 and SB, the rest are pretty lackluster. But this is definitely an assault the Clan line-up needed.

Edited by Saint Scarlett Johan, 18 May 2016 - 12:23 PM.

[Evan20k]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 May 2016 - 11:56 AM, said:

if it were PP-FLD mebbe. The fact it's burst means I find the KDK does high dmg, but comparably low Kill Ratio for dmg.

Even if you think of the ballistics like screen-shaking lasers, 500m+ range with that much damage is still really, really good without any of the drawbacks (Direwolf) normally associated with that damage+range.

[Bud Crue]

Gyrok, on 18 May 2016 - 11:03 AM, said:

I am just trying to get a handle on what it is that people perceive to be OP about this mech. It is undoubtedly good, but far from being a showstopper. The loads of KDK pilots turning in 100-200 damage scores can tell you that.

So, elaborate, WHY do YOU think the KDK is, or is not, stronger than the AS7 or MAL?

Been trying to get an answer to this in a few different threads. So far nuthin. Best I can tell is that those asserting OP status are referring near exclusively to the 3 (with the possible exception above), and even in the case of the 3 I think it is merely because that alpha is indeed really impressive, especially if you are not particularly mobile when getting hit by it (so what else is new?). That's the best I have been able to divine from the vauge OP assertions I have read in about a dozen different threads. Specifics in the form of videos or other objective observations would do wonders for this sort of conversation. But I suppose that just isn't possible when folks have a preconceived notion that they just have to "prove". Sigh.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Evan20k, on 18 May 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

Even if you think of the ballistics like screen-shaking lasers, 500m+ range with that much damage is still really, really good without any of the drawbacks (Direwolf) normally associated with that damage+range.

There are drawbacks associated with both the Whale and Kodiak at that range, it is called poor projectile velocity, and it is what stops both from being able to actually compete with the Mauler at 500+.

[LT. HARDCASE]

There are currently too many Kodiaks on the field, to get a decent feel of their balance position.