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Crimson Expansion Proposal


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#1 Danjo San

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 04:56 AM

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#2 Danjo San

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 05:08 AM

To take the battle away from the usual attack lanes you could add an extra location to the south eastern part in the mountains, such as a airfield, like in River City.
Also a second sneaky Tunnel which ramps up to the upper Deck and connects South Bay with East Bay could add a new lane for scouts to run covert behind enemy lines. The long tunnel would have to be much larger in width and could include additional cover possibilities, such as large loading containers, shelter spots or trains.
There should also be a route across the mountains for seismic sensors could then deliver information on the sneaking mechs above or below. It would also mirror the Northern Lanes. As the North has the possibility at the moment to move across the pass, through the tunnel or through northern city, where as the southern Lanes at the moment leave no room other than moving to the dock and reacting to either lane chosen by the north.

#3 Koniving

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 05:24 AM

Would also like to see additional use of the island far west and the "tacked on" urban area and gas station n the far east; perhaps a spawn point at each or even one mode using the island and perhaps proposed airfield as bases?

#4 jjm1

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 06:01 AM

The new ramps and tunnels are too long IMO, almost the entirety of a matches walking time. I'd break them up into separate ramps/tunnels with more exits so attack routes don't become predictable.

#5 Danjo San

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 06:44 AM

View PostKoniving, on 09 June 2016 - 05:24 AM, said:

Would also like to see additional use of the island far west and the "tacked on" urban area and gas station n the far east; perhaps a spawn point at each or even one mode using the island and perhaps proposed airfield as bases?

Yeah those two areas hardly get any action as well ... one thing you could do to help the Island is to introduce similiar cover as River City Redux got down in the Bay.
Different Topic: I would also enjoy a kind of one sided Assault mode similar to Invasion Mode in Faction Warfare.
Instead of two Bases there would be one Base needed to be assaulted. The "Gas Station" Area could be a possible location for that, with additional attack lanes as I proposed it would leave multiple angles to assault from. especially with a high ground overwatch position from the airfield side.

View Postjjm1, on 09 June 2016 - 06:01 AM, said:

The new ramps and tunnels are too long IMO, almost the entirety of a matches walking time. I'd break them up into separate ramps/tunnels with more exits so attack routes don't become predictable.

Yeah, I agree the length is quite long, but if you consider new spawn locations could be introduced with the expansion, walking distance becomes relative. Also as you can tell by my lousy photoshop skills i just painted something onto the map quickly. Multiple pathes and ramps can be added to introduce even more possibilities.
Walking from North Base across Northern City already has a similar distance. It would simply need to mirror the northern part in terms of possible paths, or walkways, ramps and tunnels.
Consider the current state and think about the early game choices available in terms of movement. The North has a ton of choices, where as the south only has one viable path at the moment, which is to the dock.

#6 Koniving

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 06:48 AM

View Postjjm1, on 09 June 2016 - 06:01 AM, said:

The new ramps and tunnels are too long IMO, almost the entirety of a matches walking time. I'd break them up into separate ramps/tunnels with more exits so attack routes don't become predictable.

Agreed. A few connecting exits, possibly to other assets would be welcomed. For example a possible 'branch' from the Ramp to the second tunnel via a 'destroyed' (or destroyable) section allowing one to go from ramp into the tunnel.

Another going from ramp onto a road on the hill -- or simply some space where a crafty mech can get on the hill and traverse it -- noting that this would probably be difficult for non-lights to access would be neat if say mechs like Catapults or Archers could use it as an LRM-throwing vantage point.

A tunnel 1 style exit at the 'corner' of the turn Tunnel 2.

So this adds additional exits to Tunnel 2; one of which can probably just be dropped into but maybe not climbed out of (the 'destruction' hole) and the other as a fork at that curve.

It also adds a consideration for access to the hill from the ramp, even if it might only be JJ exclusive.
So for this second bit, perhaps a hill access from somewhere near the top of tunnel 2's exit at the second level of the harbor to which they can travel across to the mountain.
See 1 minute into this.

This would be the mountain that Tunnel 2 cuts through and that the Airfield ramp would 'encircle' that I referred to as a "hill"

#7 rolly

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 06:58 AM

View Postjjm1, on 09 June 2016 - 06:01 AM, said:

The new ramps and tunnels are too long IMO, almost the entirety of a matches walking time. I'd break them up into separate ramps/tunnels with more exits so attack routes don't become predictable.


Or they could be broken up into multiple pockets or sidings to make it less of a fire alley and more of warren. Just a thought...

#8 Danjo San

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 07:06 AM

View Postrolly, on 09 June 2016 - 06:58 AM, said:


Or they could be broken up into multiple pockets or sidings to make it less of a fire alley and more of warren. Just a thought...

Thats what I intended, have the tunnel be wide and have obstacles providing cover within it.

You could also add a direct Tunnel to Airfield access ramp. And have something like larger Chambers at the Intersection points of the tunnels arms.

#9 KaliBaba_VR

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 12:47 PM

Intriguing idea to add an airfield and ramps behind the hills with an extra tunnel. Seems promising. Extra props for the map visual. +1

#10 LordKnightFandragon

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 02:07 PM

View PostDanjo San, on 09 June 2016 - 04:56 AM, said:

Posted Image


Saw off the mountains and put some buildings up there instead.

#11 Danjo San

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 02:07 AM

Posted Imagejust for comparison. The current state of Crimson Strait, with highlighted early game movement options. One could argue that this is only from the "assault mode" perspective, and when playing skirmish the lanes differ, where as that may be true in sense, deathball regroup is usually what happens, and the most common denominator for the Bay Side Team is ... The Dock.
Also having the current state next to my proposal shows how little surgery is needed, sizewise the expansion is very little, the impact would be huge though.

#12 Rogue Jedi

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 09:38 AM

great ideas.

Crimson in my option does not need much "improvement" but offering a bit more variety for the side starting on the same side as the platform should be an improvement.
the island is only usually used by snipers and more often than not it is the team starting on the other side who take the initiative because being on top of the platform offers significant advantages, for some strange reason the main fight usually seems to happen in the area around the platform/dock despite other parts of the map offering far better cover and more tactical options

the water is usually completely ignored effectively halving the used size of the map, at the very least conquest should have 1 cap point on the main island.

perhaps also put a few smaller islands in the bay providing more cover if people want to cross to/from/behind the main island, along similar lines to what was done with the area around the "theta" cap point on new River City

there are many options for what could be done but most of the suggestions I have seen in this thread are pretty good and should not require too much work for PGI to implement.

#13 Tordin

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 05:46 AM

Im all for solutions that kan make more varity in where the fights take place. No matter if theres some "natural" center point like for Terra Thermas volcano and Caustic Valley. Even in assymetrical maps like River City and Crimson Strait people still go to battle in certain spots in like 90% of the time.

#14 Danjo San

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 08:47 AM

View PostRogue Jedi, on 11 June 2016 - 09:38 AM, said:

for some strange reason the main fight usually seems to happen in the area around the platform/dock despite other parts of the map offering far better cover and more tactical options

The Map plays out the same way most of the times because of the limited choices the bay team has. going to the island leaves too little cover. Pushing across the water to northern city takes too long and you are out in the open and vulnerable. That leaves only one choice. Walk to the Dock and then to the platform. The Other Team knows that and for that reason they have to choose where to murderball to. The walking distance and the time it takes to get to each other result in fights happening on the Platform Dock. Nothern Team would have to choose not to engage them at the platform to draw the fights to other areas.
If however Bay Team had more than one choice where to go, the chances that fights occur in different areas rises

#15 Syrkres

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 10:32 AM

On your proposed maps I would shift tunnel 2 entrance to the "Air field" ramp.

Having that long tunnel gives too much advantage to defenders as they would be in total dark with a long tunnel to with "light" behind any one attacking.

#16 c33tz

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 12:03 PM

View PostDanjo San, on 09 June 2016 - 04:56 AM, said:

Posted Image



This is great.. I was JUST going to post a suggestino for an expansion of the map... my idea, perhaps as a starter, is a lot simpler and takes you "tunnel 2" route, and just makes it a mountain path, that cuts around the saddle, with cover, and allows a flanking point for both "defenders" of the sacred paltform, and "attackers".

I feel like at minimum, opening up this route (G5 to G7 to F7) would increase lower level combat and make much more effective use of the city terrain that is so often ignored on this map.




You have my vote for this. Either all of it, or at minimum just a natural path or road along the "tunnel 2" route.

#17 c33tz

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 12:15 PM

View PostDanjo San, on 11 June 2016 - 02:07 AM, said:

Posted Imagejust for comparison. The current state of Crimson Strait, with highlighted early game movement options. One could argue that this is only from the "assault mode" perspective, and when playing skirmish the lanes differ, where as that may be true in sense, deathball regroup is usually what happens, and the most common denominator for the Bay Side Team is ... The Dock.
Also having the current state next to my proposal shows how little surgery is needed, sizewise the expansion is very little, the impact would be huge though.



OOPs double post, sorry, but on this remark.. I would argue (at least for competitive play) that a route to the island for you indicated "blue" side is used and viable (but only for ranged compositions).... that begin said, it is virtually NEVER used in pugs and 99% of mwo gameplay and I agree there needs to be extension on that side of the map (so bored of the docks)

Like my recent prior post, I agree with a path/route through the g5 to g7 to f7 (and possibly to water) opening which carves a path out of the giant useless mountain and opens up for more city brawls on the opposite side of saddle and on the defending city skirts before the docks.

Some mroe terrain and cover going past the island undetected may be of use if they wanted to open that up for more play but I see it being either abused (if TOO defensible) or simply unused (still not close to enemy forces for brawling) even if they did.

An ideal map for me would look something like:

Posted Image


Note there is potential for very nice symmetry in the map after this also for balancing purposes... but that may go against PGI's intentions for the map :/

Edited by c33tz, 24 December 2016 - 12:16 PM.


#18 Tarogato

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 07:17 PM

I suggested something similar a while back.

Posted Image





Thread: http://mwomercs.com/...r-improvements/

#19 Danjo San

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 10:24 AM

View PostTarogato, on 24 December 2016 - 07:17 PM, said:

I suggested something similar a while back.

Posted Image





Thread: http://mwomercs.com/...r-improvements/

awsome!

#20 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 11:43 AM

I am all for larger maps and these ideas look very interesting. Let us hope PGI is listening.

Edited by Spare Parts Bin, 02 February 2018 - 11:44 AM.






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