43 replies to this topic

[MechWarrior319348]

The population is sour towards Russ Apparently, but I have been doing some reading on the overall picture of Piranha. I'm actually starting to feel sympathetic towards PGI.

This game started with two lego pieces, Infinite Games, and Piranha Games.

Infinite had the cash, Piranha had the workhorse.

Piranha wanted to really develop Mechwarrior Online, and viewed MWO as a personal project, something they could use to make a name for themselves. (they wanted to take in the community's ideas, add features that players were interested in, and all the good stuff that we want)

However, Infinite wanted to rake cash by selling this game in the "short and sweet" genre of video games. Some examples of "short and sweet" would be Call of Duty, or Battlefield.

Infinite couldn't get their way so they left, and took a lot of funding with them.

Russ commented that with Infinite Games out of the way, his team would be able to get down to business and start delivering.

But to keep an assembly line moving, you need money.

Therein lies the problem. PGI was is a "growing company." Meaning they hadn't actually hatched yet.

Companies that are already established have coffers, and can pay to develop the game on the spot. They give the developers money and say, "here is your budget, go make the game."

PGI is operating on a "pay as you go" kind of scenario.

hmmmmmmmmm how can I give example....

Starcraft...... bam.

You have to divide your resources wisely. And you have to have foresight into how many resources you will have in the future.

"Hmmmm should I use my starting money to build a second command center at another mineral field, or just keep pumping out SCVs to mine minerals at my current base, and then go to build that second command center later?"

Thoughts? Comments?

Edited by Delta 62, 09 June 2016 - 09:14 AM.

[Peter2k]

Listen to the community (well not the I hate everything part) once in a while and people might be more forgiving


Usually they only listen once the forums are literally on fire


Putting it in you're terms
They build 100 SCV's already, IGP took half
But after that they already build another 100

But maybe putting out more SCV's is not the only way to raise funds
There's been quite some ideas toward that
Just no one actually listens I guess

Edited by Peter2k, 09 June 2016 - 07:44 AM.

[Novakaine]

Sigh*

[Almond Brown]

Peter2k, on 09 June 2016 - 07:43 AM, said:

Listen to the community (well not the I hate everything part) once in a while and people might be more forgiving


Usually they only listen once the forums are literally on fire


Putting it in you're terms
They build 100 SCV's already, IGP took half
But after that they already build another 100

But maybe putting out more SCV's is not the only way to raise funds
There's been quite some ideas toward that
Just no one actually listens I guess

To be fair the Players have "Pie in the Sky" ideas with no idea what it might entail on the other end. More focus and more togetherness might go along way as well. The Community, on more than one occasion, backed the wrong horse when it came to "making a statement", 3PV being the perfect example, and so PGI just figured, **** em and now do what they see is best as they obviously know much better, again the 3PV debacle proved that in spades.

Edited by Almond Brown, 09 June 2016 - 07:50 AM.

[Alan Davion]

Almond Brown, on 09 June 2016 - 07:50 AM, said:

To be fair the Players have "Pie in the Sky" ideas with no idea what it might entail on the other end. More focus and more togetherness might go along way as well. The Community, on more than one occasion, backed the wrong horse when it came to "making a statement", 3PV being the perfect example, and so PGI just figured, **** em and now do what they see is best as they obviously know much better, again the 3PV debacle proved that in spades.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the 3PV thing solely due to IGP at the time? Pretty sure both PGI and the community didn't want it, but IGP was 'calling the shots' instead of Russ and they basically overruled PGI and the community.

[GonaDie]

''You must construct additional pylons!''

[MechWarrior319348]

All I'm saying is..........

One of us needs to give them 5 million dollars so they can finish their "foundation" products.

Anyone have some change laying around?

actually 1.5 mill would probably be their budget

Edited by Delta 62, 09 June 2016 - 09:10 AM.

[Jetfire]

Peter2k, on 09 June 2016 - 07:43 AM, said:

Listen to the community (well not the I hate everything part) once in a while and people might be more forgiving


Usually they only listen once the forums are literally on fire


Putting it in you're terms
They build 100 SCV's already, IGP took half
But after that they already build another 100

But maybe putting out more SCV's is not the only way to raise funds
There's been quite some ideas toward that
Just no one actually listens I guess

I am not sure the relevant comparison is SCV's. SCV's generate income de facto, I would say IGP took their mineral pool. It is more like they scouted out most of the resource points on the map but instead of building more Nexus or probes they built some factories and now have to build pylons and probes as the minerals come in, once they pool enough the can build another nexus and more probes. If I had lottery money I would invest in PGI, some decent capital could really blow the doors off this project. I would guess with about $5 million cash on top of their current revenue you could turn this into a game with a million players.

[Bud Crue]

Delta 62, on 09 June 2016 - 07:04 AM, said:

The population is sour towards Russ Apparently, but I have been doing some reading on the overall picture of Piranha. I'm actually starting to feel sympathetic towards PGI.

Can't speak for "the population", but I have never cared about PGI or its "overall picture". I do care about playing a fun game that is advertised as "A BattleTech Game". As long as there is a wiff of that universe (I have given up hoping for more than just a wiff) I am fine with it. If they improve it and make it more immersive and/or include game play mechanics that add to my enjoyment I may even throw more $ at them. But I don't care about PGI any more than I care about the Coca-cola Corporation because I happen to enjoy some of their products.

As to Russ. Again I can only speak for myself but I am "sour towards him" merely for his behavior as "speaker for the game" and how in that role he has appeared over the last two townhalls to have gone out of his way to be dismissive if not insulting to a good portion of the community, of which I am part. By any standard that reflects poorly on him, but I don't see how that behavior -that "souring- if you will, has any bearing on your historical summary of PGI and its various decisions over the years.

If PGI makes a great game that is in keeping with what is advertised then I can tolerate a pretty high jerk level from Russ or anyone else. As to that game...

[Clownwarlord]

Answer: Build more SVCs till you are full on gathering rate. Then build a second Command Center and start shifting SVCs over there.

[MadcatX]

After having played on and off for so long, can't say I have any feelings one way or another towards PGI. I now know what to expect from them, there's not much I can do to change that, Sure the game hasn't lived up to my expectations and maybe in the first couple years that irked me but not now.

I pretty much have no expectations anymore. There's nothing PGI can do nowadays to either make me hyped or angry, I just live with whatever features or changes they decide to make and have fun with the game as is.

[Felio]

It's not the speed of development. We're used to things being slow by now. And with IGP, development was nonexistent. It's the choices they have made that have gotten them into trouble.

Delta 62, on 09 June 2016 - 07:04 AM, said:

This game started with two lego pieces, Infinite Games, and Piranha Games.

Don't bring Lego into this. Their quality control is actually second to none.

Edited by Felio, 09 June 2016 - 10:08 AM.

[Rebas Kradd]

This piece of hearsay from a now-hater pretty much confirms this. Nice thing is, it doesn't entirely let PGI off the hook, so it's got some credibility to it.

Quote

Russ and Co were always bitching to us privately about IGP and how they wouldn't let them do a lot of things. Anything timeline related could only ever be approved by the IGP financiers. It's a stupid arrangement and bush league but that's the hand Battletech has been dealt. ... IGP was apparently responsible for QA and that was taken away from PGI. The 'secret squirrel club' where we played builds in advance was an end-around IGP and that didn't go over well. Remember how Russ and co used to drop in with us on the PGI teamspeak? IGP hated that too. We also asked why mechs were being drip fed to the community when PGI wanted to up the tempo and that was also an IGP thing. There's no consistent message. ...
I got the distinct impression that there's a small cabal of people controlling the purse strings above what is clearly an inexperienced and underfunded dev team. It's like a boat adrift in the ocean, kept afloat by the diehards who buy every package flashed at them, despite the problems with the core game.

Add to that some very common-to-the-industry technical delays and it becomes easier to understand why PGI is still playing catch-up after three years.

Quote

Any form of massive push like this results in a large amount of what we call 'technical debt'. Features that had to be written as fast as possible, and therefore rewritten due to inflexibility or bugs or any number of other factors caused by poor engineering. Nothing comes for free. Huge short-term productivity like that comes at a cost, usually long-term maintainability.

[Jackal Noble]

62, I get what you're trying to say, but that theory of how IGP was by and large responsible for our (not PGI's) plight has been quite well illustrated as groundless. We the gamers of this franchise, are pretty much the bloody damn stakeholders, not in actual PGI stock (if I were, it would be sold and forgotten), but the future of this IP. And that's what sucks. Another blue in the face stance I've seen is, "this is a niche market."
All the more reason to do research on your intended audience before you commit mockery.
Research- kind of like and or similar to getting product andfeedback from your customers and getting a better grasp on what is working as inten..... As optimally as you can do.
Every other post I have read are either excuses or accusations and personally, as I'm aware many of you are, am fed up with it. Yes, I still play this and am a vested player (moderate range)
It's 2016. Just think about that 2-0-1-6. Some adults now have spent almost they're whole lives being gamers of a sort. We see hundreds of titles and to a point and over time start to develop standards that by now should be considered default. There is no sensible justification for the shittiest optimized games ever to be seen by the eyes of man, let alone the 21St century. There is no reason that can explain that really in a way that any sensible person would sympathize with. I have a theory that in the future, when doctors have a diagnosis for gaming addiction, they will name it mechwarriors' syndrome, based on how much crap we will put up with to get our fix.

Those of you that are satisfied with what we have, and aren't pining for what such a devoted( I see it, really I do, and admire it to a point) fan base deserves, well I say, good for you. I'm questioning your sanity , but just the same, best .

[Wiley Coyote]

Delta 62, on 09 June 2016 - 09:10 AM, said:

All I'm saying is..........

One of us needs to give them 5 million dollars so they can finish their "foundation" products.

Anyone have some change laying around?

actually 1.5 mill would probably be their budget

No. No one should do this because with some of the decisions PGI makes, they might decide this was just a late crowdfunding contribution for Transverse.

[Aresye]

Bud Crue, on 09 June 2016 - 09:39 AM, said:

As to Russ. Again I can only speak for myself but I am "sour towards him" merely for his behavior as "speaker for the game" and how in that role he has appeared over the last two townhalls to have gone out of his way to be dismissive if not insulting to a good portion of the community, of which I am part. By any standard that reflects poorly on him, but I don't see how that behavior -that "souring- if you will, has any bearing on your historical summary of PGI and its various decisions over the years.

I swear, the next time I have to be reminded during a Town Hall about how "grateful" I should be that somebody picked up the MW license, I'm done spending money on this game.

For some odd reason, asking questions like, "Why has it taking over 3 years to fix the cursor bug?" or, "Why is my SLI setup getting sub-60fps?" somehow means we're "ungrateful" in Russ' eyes.

[Rebas Kradd]

JackalBeast, on 09 June 2016 - 10:14 AM, said:

62, I get what you're trying to say, but that theory of how IGP was by and large responsible for our (not PGI's) plight has been quite well illustrated as groundless. We the gamers of this franchise, are pretty much the bloody damn stakeholders, not in actual PGI stock (if I were, it would be sold and forgotten), but the future of this IP. And that's what sucks. Another blue in the face stance I've seen is, "this is a niche market."
All the more reason to do research on your intended audience before you commit mockery.
Research- kind of like and or similar to getting product andfeedback from your customers and getting a better grasp on what is working as inten..... As optimally as you can do.
Every other post I have read are either excuses or accusations and personally, as I'm aware many of you are, am fed up with it. Yes, I still play this and am a vested player (moderate range)
It's 2016. Just think about that 2-0-1-6. Some adults now have spent almost they're whole lives being gamers of a sort. We see hundreds of titles and to a point and over time start to develop standards that by now should be considered default. There is no sensible justification for the shittiest optimized games ever to be seen by the eyes of man, let alone the 21St century. There is no reason that can explain that really in a way that any sensible person would sympathize with. I have a theory that in the future, when doctors have a diagnosis for gaming addiction, they will name it mechwarriors' syndrome, based on how much crap we will put up with to get our fix.

Those of you that are satisfied with what we have, and aren't pining for what such a devoted( I see it, really I do, and admire it to a point) fan base deserves, well I say, good for you. I'm questioning your sanity , but just the same, best .

Many games take four years to develop. Most of them are smart enough not to let players in until they're in a stable state.

Posts like yours help us understand why.

[C E Dwyer]

If I.G.P had all the money, why is it they went into receivership and don't exist anymore.

[Mole]

I feel like a lot of the hurt feelings and toxicity that are present in this community could be leveled out a ton if PGI didn't make a regular habit of making the vast majority of its playerbase feel like they are being ignored and not communicated with. I'd always heard that twitter is the only way to get hold of Russ these days. It's true, apparently, because I had a question, created a twitter account, tweeted Russ, and within a half hour he had responded with an answer to my question. That happened today. This was the first time I have posed a question to PGI and it had actually been answered because my previous questions were limited to these forums. They need to show this kind of activity on the forums, not just twitter.

[Cy Mitchell]

Cathy, on 09 June 2016 - 10:48 AM, said:

If I.G.P had all the money, why is it they went into receivership and don't exist anymore.

Because they were lousy at managing money (or a game production) most likely.