33 replies to this topic

[Dogstar]

If they ever do the Crusader do you think it would be cool if they would remodel it with a wrist rocket launcher* like Marvel's Black Widow? The Crusader's 'forearms' are pretty large and it would give it a very interesting weapon mount.

*i.e. a bracelet of missile tubes around the forearm

[Bongo TauKat]

While the original Crusader had shoulder launchers and twin SRMs on the hips, the Project Phoenix one does have wrist launchers for MRMs. Both are cool in their own respect.

[Zacharias McLeod]

Bongo TauKat, on 11 June 2016 - 04:44 AM, said:

While the original Crusader had shoulder launchers and twin SRMs on the hips, the Project Phoenix one does have wrist launchers for MRMs. Both are cool in their own respect.

This is wrong.

The original Crusader has the LRMs in his arms not in the shoulder. And the SRMs are in the legs not the hips.

From Sarna:

The primary long-range weapons on the Crusader were two Magna Longbow-15 LRM-15 launchers, providing the Crusader with long-range fire support capabilities that can compete with the Archer and Catapult. These were supplied by two tons of reloads split between the side torsos. For short range combat, the 'Mech carried two Harpoon SRM-6 launchers and two Intek Medium Lasers. Finally, to deter infantry attacks against the Crusader, two M100 Machine Guns were mounted on the 'Mech. One ton each of SRM and machine gun ammunition was carried in the center torso.
Each arm was equipped with an LRM launcher, laser and machine gun, while the SRM launchers were built into the legs and mounted at hip height to provide a stable firing location and avoid interference with the LRMs' flight path. Early Crusader models had issues with the arm-mounter launchers and lasers overheating and causing stress to the actuators and internal structure, but this was rectified with the additions of the now-distinctive collars which deflect hot gasses away

Edited by Zacharias McLeod, 11 June 2016 - 06:11 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

When I am Master of the Universe, I will declare a death penalty for people who start threads like this without any pictures / illustrations.

[Escef]

Zacharias McLeod, on 11 June 2016 - 06:10 AM, said:

This is wrong.

The original Crusader has the LRMs in his arms not in the shoulder. And the SRMs are in the legs not the hips.

Semantic nonsense.

[jss78]

Dogstar, on 11 June 2016 - 03:09 AM, said:

If they ever do the Crusader do you think it would be cool if they would remodel it with a wrist rocket launcher* like Marvel's Black Widow? The Crusader's 'forearms' are pretty large and it would give it a very interesting weapon mount.

*i.e. a bracelet of missile tubes around the forearm

This is exactly what the current re-imagined Crusader in tabletop does. But considering that PGI appears confident that they can go closer to the original designs, I'd be a little surprised if they didn't do so with the Crusader also.

[Kasumi Sumika]

I want THIS Crusader.

Edited by Kasumi Sumika, 11 June 2016 - 06:53 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Dogstar, on 11 June 2016 - 03:09 AM, said:

If they ever do the Crusader do you think it would be cool if they would remodel it with a wrist rocket launcher* like Marvel's Black Widow? The Crusader's 'forearms' are pretty large and it would give it a very interesting weapon mount.

*i.e. a bracelet of missile tubes around the forearm

Orions already do it, so it would simply be taking said idea and adding a fist in the middle instead of a laser.

Kasumi Sumika, on 11 June 2016 - 06:52 AM, said:

I want THIS Crusader.

I want a golden outhouse. Looks like we're both going to stay disappointed.

no reason they can't "meet in the middle"

and combine aspects from both.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 11 June 2016 - 08:09 AM.

[Barantor]

Since PGI is reluctant to put weapons in legs I assume we would get them in the side torsos.

The arms would look similar to either the Orion arms with a fist in the center instead of the Orion barrel, or like a Trebuchets with a boxier look.

[Gorgo7]

Visually the crusader would look stunning with SRM's in the thigh/hips. Alas they would be the first thing I would remove given how LOW they are and how likely they are to be stopped by the terrain.

[Bishop Steiner]

Barantor, on 11 June 2016 - 08:12 AM, said:

Since PGI is reluctant to put weapons in legs I assume we would get them in the side torsos.

The arms would look similar to either the Orion arms with a fist in the center instead of the Orion barrel, or like a Trebuchets with a boxier look.

I would absolutely HATE to be the tech assigned to maintaining any missile feed systems in battletech.

All these tiny little joint's they somehow thread a weapon feed through, to fit these multi-launch racks. I mean, in reality all the missiles would be about the size of a modern RPG to be able to fit in the quantities we see (LRM boat with 1300 individual missiles?)

SMH.

I do at times wish Btech had been more thought out around missiles and such, though admittedly, the only way to keep anti armor missiles from ruling the roost if done "realistically" would be to have AMS/ECM extremely powerful meaning they had a low hit probability overall, to having had the targeting systems get so primitive over the succession wars that they were launching essentially unguided missiles (like in lore..but the missiles would be more akin to an LRM 20 having ...20 long range missiles And reloads and weights being based on like...5 LRMs weighing 1 ton).

Which would have made mechs like Archers potentially insanely OP at the beginning of a fight when they multi launched multiple heavy warheads to ensure some hit... and then real weak later when they were empty racks.

And of course, they could have Rocket Pods acting more like MRMs with different payloads/ranges. And even potentially reloads but again approached very differently.

Gorgo7, on 11 June 2016 - 08:20 AM, said:

Visually the crusader would look stunning with SRM's in the thigh/hips. Alas they would be the first thing I would remove given how LOW they are and how likely they are to be stopped by the terrain.

And as visually stunning as they would be....the ammo feeds would have to be satan's own nightmare. Of course...so are most arm systems. And yeah, I would LOVE to see one or two mechs get that placement just for the visual differences.

With SRMs, I don't think the low placement would matter that much...since most sub 270 meter fights terrain matters little.

[Gorgo7]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 June 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

And as visually stunning as they would be....the ammo feeds would have to be satan's own nightmare. Of course...so are most arm systems. And yeah, I would LOVE to see one or two mechs get that placement just for the visual differences.

With SRMs, I don't think the low placement would matter that much...since most sub 270 meter fights terrain matters little.

While I agree with your sentiment, i do find low placed SRM's, energy and any direct fire to be problematic while cornering, ascending/descending hills or just using boulders to reduce your profile. Only a tactical berserk charge would to my mind make them useful. That or an Oops moment .
Stepping out into the open (which can be very dangerous early/mid game) limits their effectiveness to me.
Light LRM's might be OK.
It would be nice to see the slots used for something other than ammo though...

Edited by Gorgo7, 11 June 2016 - 08:32 AM.

[Bradigus]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 June 2016 - 08:11 AM, said:

no reason they can't "meet in the middle" and combine aspects from both.

Kind of like this?

[Bishop Steiner]

Gorgo7, on 11 June 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

While I agree with your sentiment, i do find low placed SRM's, energy and any direct fire to be problematic while cornering, ascending/descending hills or just using boulders to reduce your profile. Only a tactical berserk charge would to my mind make them useful. That or an Oops moment .
Stepping out into the open (which can be very dangerous early/mid game) limits their effectiveness to me.
Light LRM's might be OK.
It would be nice to see the slots used for something other than ammo though...

I'd love to lock the legs from holding ammo...but sadly the AWS-9M makes that impossible, if I recall. Idiotic as it is to fill you boot with ammo that is supposed to feed to arms and torsos.

[Gorgo7]

Agreed.

[Barantor]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 June 2016 - 08:34 AM, said:

I'd love to lock the legs from holding ammo...but sadly the AWS-9M makes that impossible, if I recall. Idiotic as it is to fill you boot with ammo that is supposed to feed to arms and torsos.

The lack of restrictions in the mechlab open up more problems than they are worth IMO when it comes to balance.

I'd give up that ammo being in the right stock place in the AWS-9M for there to be more restrictions and make this a more interesting game.

[C E Dwyer]

Dogstar, on 11 June 2016 - 03:09 AM, said:

If they ever do the Crusader do you think it would be cool if they would remodel it with a wrist rocket launcher* like Marvel's Black Widow? The Crusader's 'forearms' are pretty large and it would give it a very interesting weapon mount.

*i.e. a bracelet of missile tubes around the forearm

No one big no, they look crap frankly, just like the Zues looks god awful with multiple srms launchers, Ironwind models it like you want its bloody awful, thankfully my old model crusaders are the ones with class.

Shoulder mounts which are part of the arms,

Edited by Cathy, 11 June 2016 - 08:39 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gorgo7, on 11 June 2016 - 08:35 AM, said:

Agreed.

Unfortunately it would likely push most IS mechs back to laservomit, too.

Barantor, on 11 June 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

The lack of restrictions in the mechlab open up more problems than they are worth IMO when it comes to balance.

I'd give up that ammo being in the right stock place in the AWS-9M for there to be more restrictions and make this a more interesting game.

yeah..though the only other open slot, stock is tin the left arm.... which makes sense for the LA launcher..but less for the CT.

The actual layout of the 9M is a hot mess. SMH.
AWS-9M

[Barantor]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 June 2016 - 08:38 AM, said:

Unfortunately it would likely push most IS mechs back to laservomit, too.


yeah..though the only other open slot, stock is tin the left arm.... which makes sense for the LA launcher..but less for the CT.

The actual layout of the 9M is a hot mess. SMH.
AWS-9M

Because double heat sinks lol, but it needs those for the ER PPCs. The arm is a fine place for the ammo compared to where it is stock.

[C E Dwyer]

Bradigus, on 11 June 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

Kind of like this?

With PGi refusing to put weapons in the legs this is the best look we can hope for