45 replies to this topic

[Appogee]

Then I actually spend the day playing MWO, experience match after match of being unable to carry PUG teams of breathtaking stupidity, and I seriously wonder why I bother playing this game at all anymore.

Here are examples from some of the matches I played during my 12 straight losses so far today trying to level 3LPL Wolverine:

• A match where I got the first three kills, and then died, and the rest of the team got zero kills after that. Zero.
  
• A Conquest match where I not only capped the team's only two cap points, and killed the last four enemies... but we still lost on caps.
  
• A match where it came down to 4v2, but then a team member who had been camping from long range for the entire match, killed one of our friendlies, and then enemy won 10-12.
  
• A match where it came down to 2v1, against a sole enemy ERL Cicada. One of our two remaining Mechs hid while his team mate fought solo, then shot our team mate when he tried to get back into cover.
  
• A match where we were 3 Mechs ahead in Domination, and well ahead on the clock, until two Kodiaks went off to destroy Alpha and Beta. By the time they got back, the enemy had killed everyone else.
  
• I just concluded a match where a team mate called where the enemy were, put up a UAV, and in unison, 8 Mechs on our team turned around and ran in the opposite direction. The enemy walked over the four of us who tried to engage and hold some kind of firing line, and we lost 2-12.

I'm in freaking Tier 1. If there was any truth in the claim that the matchmaker tries to match skills, then you'd think that might lead to my playing with and against other experienced Tier 1 players.


But no. Aside from perhaps a lance worth of experienced players when I'm lucky, there's is no way in hell that the bulk of the teams I dropped with today were anything more than Tier 4. They couldn't be, based on the levels of derp demonstrated in loadouts, perpetual hiding, running away and other just plain stupid noob tactics.

Edited by Appogee, 11 June 2016 - 09:16 AM.

[Sader325]

[Tyler Valentine]

I laughed, I cried, I empathized.

[Appogee]

Sader325, on 11 June 2016 - 09:18 AM, said:

Winning doesn't matter, just pull your weight.

I've tried not to care about winning. Really I have.

I don't need to win all the time. I just need to have the chance to win sometimes.

Edited by Appogee, 11 June 2016 - 09:41 AM.

[BlueFlames]

It's not so much that the matchmaker is bad at matching people within two tiers of each other; it's that the tiers are meaningless. The bonus that new players get to their rate of advancement and the amount that winning/losing a match counts toward tier progression means that anyone can hit tier three on their first day with the game through little more than dumb luck. Once they're tier three, they can be matched with anyone, including tier one players who have been playing since closed beta.

Operationalizing "skill" in a video game is tough, I'll grant. That said, the PSR system does the task poorly, and the matches you describe, Appogee, where you're clearly the sole veteran on a team of green newbies is another demonstration of the system's failure.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

I will lay much of the blame with 12v12. It may save PGI some money, but it screws over game balance. Sure, it has a place in Invasion mode with the limited respawn mechanic, but for PUG instant action games it turns the entire thing into one big game of Russian Roulette, with only one chamber empty.

8v8 significantly amplifies individual contribution, and reduces the more egregious time-to-kill issues (it's marginally more realistic to survive turning a corner for half a second against 8 enemies than it is against 12).

Of course, 4v4 (non-Recon mode, which has rules quirks that make it untenable as a mainstay game mode) would be even better, but since that's not going to happen 8v8 is the best option left.

[Appogee]

I just won two - TWO! - scouting matches.

[DarthHias]

Well as there´s not much time to play atm with the European Championship going, I decided to get in some drops between Wales:Slowakia and England:Russia.

Got derps over derps. So I´m back to watching football.

[STEF_]

Appogee, on 11 June 2016 - 09:09 AM, said:

If there was any truth in the claim that the matchmaker tries to match skills,

.....I feel your pain..
Sadly ATM tiers mean nothing, thanks to the "everybody goes up/T-Ball generation" tier system.

(btw, I tried to suggest to pgi CEO that we need a zero sum based PSR total in a match..... but the first time he asked "What is a zero sum calculation".
Last time he said "Shut up! We don't need any suggestion from playerbase, we perfectly know what to do"

[Wintersdark]

Appogee, on 11 June 2016 - 09:38 AM, said:

I've tried not to care about winning. Really I have.

I don't need to win all the time. I just need to have the chance to win sometimes.

Welcome to online random team PvP games. I don't know why you expect MWO to be any different from any other.

[MoonUnitBeta]

since the dawn of it's introduction tier =/= skill.

PSR isn't a reliable metric for the matchmaker to use. I'm not sure why people are surprised when Tier 1 is plagued by unskilled players that just play lots and never change their bad habits.

PSR has been out for a while.. It was only a matter of time anyways before we got to this point. And PGI knew it too, just flip back through Russ's twitter.

[Wintersdark]

MoonUnitBeta, on 11 June 2016 - 10:48 AM, said:

since the dawn of it's introduction tier =/= skill.

PSR isn't a reliable metric for the matchmaker to use. I'm not sure why people are surprised when Tier 1 is plagued by unskilled players that just play lots and never change their bad habits.

PSR has been out for a while.. It was only a matter of time anyways before we got to this point. And PGI knew it too, just flip back through Russ's twitter.

It seems pretty clear from the start that the tier system has only existed to protect new players from experienced ones, and give people an epeen bar to chase. No more, no less.

[Dudeman3k]

in leau of the resize efforts. i finally updated the client and played a couple matches last night..... and holy S**T its bad. the snow ball effect seems worse than ever and 1k damage in assault lance seems to be the norm..

wow.... no re-size can fix this s**t show.

[Triordinant]

Appogee, on 11 June 2016 - 09:09 AM, said:

But no. Aside from perhaps a lance worth of experienced players when I'm lucky, there's is no way in hell that the bulk of the teams I dropped with today were anything more than Tier 4. They couldn't be, based on the levels of derp demonstrated in loadouts, perpetual hiding, running away and other just plain stupid noob tactics.

Higher Tier does NOT mean higher skill since Tier is basically an XP bar. It's hilariously easy to get from Tier 5 to Tier 3 and most players end up in Tier 3. Those are the majority of your teammates since there's a hard limit in the MM that makes it impossible in the Solo Queue for either your team or the enemy team to have Tier 4 or Tier 5 players if you're Tier 1.

[wanderer]

Appogee, on 11 June 2016 - 09:09 AM, said:

I'm in freaking Tier 1. If there was any truth in the claim that the matchmaker tries to match skills, then you'd think that might lead to my playing with and against other experienced Tier 1 players.

But no. Aside from perhaps a lance worth of experienced players when I'm lucky, there's is no way in hell that the bulk of the teams I dropped with today were anything more than Tier 4. They couldn't be, based on the levels of derp demonstrated in loadouts, perpetual hiding, running away and other just plain stupid noob tactics.

You...believed them.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA- Ok, I'm better.

Paul's PSR system is set to such a massive positive bias that it's impossible for any player capable of operating the basic controls of the game to not hit T3 given steady play.

Once they do, they're in the T1-T3 bucket and only going to move up, as losses cost far less PSR than even a modest win-carry gains. The only reason there was an illusion of separation is initial rankings meant good players were put into higher tiers. It was only a matter of time before the derp hordes rose in enough numbers to drown them in a sea of mediocrity and fail.

And it will not be fixed until higher tiers require higher match scores to gain PSR and avoid losing it, exceptionally low match scores cause greater PSR loss at higher tiers, and PSR base losses are bumped up to about 125% or so of current stats.

I'd honestly make match scores required go up by +50 for each tier past 4, and have an additional higher PSR loss bar start at 0-50 for T3, then 0-100 at T2, 0-150 at T1 to fill in the gap as "normal" PSR loss/equal/gain requirements increase.

[C E Dwyer]

To call anything a personal skill rating when it goes up or down based on win or loses is farcical

[GRiPSViGiL]

Sader325, on 11 June 2016 - 09:18 AM, said:

This is what it comes down to really. There is nothing to play for but your own epeen. Play selfish and pull your weight. PGI didn't give us anything to play for. No role warfare just means do as much damage as you can and call it good.

[Appogee]

Triordinant, on 11 June 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

... there's a hard limit in the MM that makes it impossible in the Solo Queue for either your team or the enemy team to have Tier 4 or Tier 5 players if you're Tier 1.

That is a commonly-held fallacy.

In fact, the matchmaker has 'release valves' which, after a set waiting period, enable it to select players outside the usual three-tier bracket.

Note that it's not necessarily you that has to have waited 2 minutes for these release values to kick in. If 23 other people of lower tiers have been waiting for 2 minutes, and you come along as a Tier 1, the matchmaker will add you to the match.

It seems to me the matchmaker must be using these release valves just about every match. I can't explain the teams I've been dropped with today any other way.






Incidentally, I've now won 3 out of 18 PUG drops.

[KodiakGW]

Current PSR system = XP bar.

Just think. If they ever implement Solaris (not holding my breath), you get to meet the same derps 1v1. Going to be nothing but fun times then.

And, I couldn't agree more about 8v8 resolving a number of issues. But, since it was a monetary choice, it will never change. Even if it costs them their player base.

[Yellonet]

Yep, been playing in very very bad teams all day.
Also, no communication except me for the most part.

Probably too few players, but there should be some kind of divider where you need to be over a certain average points per game or something to be grouped with players that can also do this. Tiers are apparently a way too blunt tool to get decent players to play with decent players.