6 replies to this topic

[Hit the Deck]

I think for the current environment/balance, dual (U)AC/20 produce too much Ghost Heat. Smurphy says that the GH values for dual autocannon 20s are:

• AC/20: 23.52 pts of heat (12 pts w/o GH)
  
• cAC/20: 26.40 pts of heat (12 pts w/o GH)
  
• cUAC/20: 30.80 pts of heat (14 pts w/o GH)

On average, firing dual autocannon 20 feels like firing four of them because of the Ghost Heat! It may be a reasonable value back then but I think for now it's just a bit too much. Let's see some of those (non-joke) builds which sport dual Boom:

• Jagermech JM6-A
  
• Warhammer WHM-6R
  
• Mauler MAL-1R - lolhot maybe a joke build
  
• King Crab KGC-000

Those are on top of my head and I hope someone can fill me in regarding any viable dual, triple, or quad (lol Clan OP) cUAC/20 build.


Most of the time, I prefer equipping dual Gauss because they are far less limited by range, your team dynamics in battle, and heat! Dual Boom 'Mechs should be really scary when they can get close in spite of the difficulty involved (they are either slow or brittle) but as for now, the GH makes them need to play peek-a-boo at close range.

I wanted to make a thread at the Suggestion subforum but I'd like to hear what you guys want to say first! What do you think of the current (U)AC/20 GH?

Edited by Hit the Deck, 12 June 2016 - 04:01 AM.

[Mawai]

The problem is that dual AC20 mechs can be very effective when not limited by Ghost heat. I don't think that has changed. I have played both the JM6 builds and CPLT K2 builds with dual AC20, both before and after Ghost heat. Ghost heat limits them to about 3 volleys (120 points PPFLD damage) before overheating while without Ghost heat they can go almost indefinitely. They are still effective with ghost heat but they have to choose the times when they want to fire both much more carefully, watch the heat scale, and revert to firing single shots with 0.5 second spacing if they are close to the heat limit.

However. could PGI tweak the ghost heat multiplier on them a bit without significantly changing the current balance ... yes they could ... but I am not sure that it would make enough difference. It is probably also good that it is a niche build since high damage PPFLD leads to shorter overall time to kill ... which is probably undesirable. Clan mechs often have higher alpha but those attacks are usually damage over time that may not hit the same component except against stationary or slow targets.

[El Bandito]

Slight reduction is acceptable. Maybe reduce it to 19-20 points of heat when alphaed.

[Cyborne Elemental]

My problem with DUAL-AC20 builds is this.

We have Dual Gauss, which deals 30 damage, can be used at all ranges, and is significantly more dangerous because of its versatility.

We have Quad-UAC-10, which can potentially(almost always) deal out 80 damage for much less heat than Dual-AC20, and which gives a pretty insane jump in DPS, and can be used at a pretty fair range bracket, well beyond AC-20 anyway.

We have Hexa&Quad-UAC-5, and QUAD-AC-5 buids which are effective at almost all engagement ranges, still with way higher DPS than dual-AC20 builds and for almost no noticeable heat unless you're running the Diashi with 6 AC5s, and even then its easily manageable.

AC-20 builds are niche, and require you to be pretty much point blank to be dealing your damage, the projectiles are slow and easily shielded against, or avoided completely by fast lights.

I just don't see a point in the Ghost heat when so many other weapons can be combined or just plain used normally without ghost heat, allowing for even more damage and in most cases far less heat production while being viable at better range brackets.

If you allowed an enemy to close within 270-320 meters, AC-20's deserve to be absolutely lethal, and without this stupid Ghost heat penalty.
Its a Melee weapon IMO, just like SRM's, and even SRM's can run 4x SRM6 w/ Artemis and be dealing more damage with less heat than Dual-AC20.

The only possible reason to be complaining is that it can land both shots on the same spot, and that only really works against a motionless target, the odds of landing both shots with such low velocity on a mobile target is about 50/50 IMO, and gets even worse the faster a target is moving.

The only worthwhile debate to be had is how to handle Ultra-20's, and even then its a pretty sad argument because of facetime and spread with the delay.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mister D, on 12 June 2016 - 05:10 AM, said:

AC-20 builds are niche, and require you to be pretty much point blank to be dealing your damage, the projectiles are slow and easily shielded against, or avoided completely by fast lights.

considering how many successful assault mechs seem to be built around small lasers and srms, I would be careful with AC20s. I find the GH on BoomJagers to feel just about right. If anything a lot of the other builds you mention need more reining in if anything, as examples of the egregious powercreep in this game.

[Hit the Deck]

Bringing the others to be more in line with the (U)AC/20 is also an option, although that needs a lot more work.

[Bishop Steiner]

Hit the Deck, on 12 June 2016 - 05:29 AM, said:

Bringing the others to be more in line with the (U)AC/20 is also an option, although that needs a lot more work.

yes, but IMO needed. TTK is too low in many cases, especially with focus fire, and the GH is not as big an issue when fighting 1v1 where TTK is still (mostly) decent. Making the dual UAC20 stronger just worsens the powercreep which in the last 6 months in particular seems to have grown at a startling rate. We need to reverse that trend, not feed it.