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Faction Play Workover


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#1 Contrex

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Posted 13 June 2016 - 01:08 AM

At the moment there are several problems with faction play. Many of the bigger units stopped playing faction games for several reasons. In this post i would like to sum up some of the major problems many people have

A ) We have too many factions. The Lore tells us which factions we have and Mechwarrior cant be played without these factions. True.... But we can get one step further.
If the lore is the problem, we have a simple solution:

Every faction can not only vote an enemy he wants to attack, every faction should also be able to vote a faction to work with. This means : If Steiner votes Davion, Steiner pilots should be able to attack for Davion. The planet which is attacked can only be tagged by the faction which is directly attacking the planet. So steiner tags cant be found on a planet, if the planet is conquered through the davion attack phase.
If we have partners to attack with, we cut the amount of factions by 50%.

Another solution would be: Every IS should be able to attack with any faction, if a clan faction is attacked. The tag goes as well to the faction which is able to attack the planet.
The same way for the Clans on the other side

B ) Scouting System - and rewards: The Scoutinsystem was a nice idea. But for the people who just love CW is it realy annyoing. If you play a 12vs12 with 2 even teams you want to compare with them. If the enemy already knows where you are going it is realy annoying, but if they even have a Longtom, you dont need to fight at all. So i think there should NO influence at all for the factiongames by scoutgames. There must be any other reward for scoutmatches, then longtom or satelitesweep. I think the best solution would solve another problem as well: Only one planet in one attackphase. If a planet is at 100% none is attacking or defending anymore. So let people scout planets without an attackphase and if they are successfull, the faction gets a second planet in the next phase to attack. So you would be able to attack more planets AND you would not have any influence into the CW games.

C) Too many new players at FP: I think people should have been played at least 100 quickgames before they are able to play CW.

D) Unitqueue and Soloqueue: I hate playing against random groups. Its just boring, Waste of time. Its even more boring, if the playes in there are not in a team. Its like fighting trees in WOW to raise ur lumberjackskills. Its grinding. So there are 2 opportunities: Play CW as it is and lose many of the teams who want to fight other teams OR split the queue for groups of at least 8 people playing and the rest. You can fill with 4 randoms if there are only 8 players in the team. Factiongame is somekind of teamgame. If you dont have a team dont play a teamgame. Its no fun at all for randomgroups just to get farmed by 12man as well. There must be a solution. The way it is at the moment is one of the mainreasons FP is going down.

E) Big Mercunits: One month ago every single top10 mercunit (but NS) joined the falcons. What happened? MAAAANY ghostdrops. There had been so mutch attackers and not enough defenders. So they started scouting for the longtom as well (because they had been bored) and then there had been even less defender. It was just badluck, all the big units had been joining JF at the same time. So reduce the chance to get all the big units together in one big pool, you have to do treat them as mercs. So you have 2 ways to do this:

1) Factions offer contracts, if a faction is full of mercs they should not offer anymore contracts. Actualy i think only the less 5 played factions should offer contracts. The top 5 should NOT. So mercs will be treated as what they are, soldiers who fight for everyone, who gives them a job.

2) Big merc units should not be able to get short contracts. The bigger a unit is, the less flexible it has to be. To ship all the mechs from one faction to another faction needs plenty of time. Actualy they should be able to get short contracts as well, but have a long time to move from one faction to antoher faction withoug been able to fight. But this way, we would hurt ourself. So the bigger a merc unit is: the longer it has to stay at one faction.
The reason is: its unlikely to happen, that too many mercunits join the same faction at one time. Less factionswitch = less risk for too many mercs at one faction.
I know many people here in the forum will start crying at the last point, just because they are a part of a big unit.

F) Ghostdrops: Nothing to explain. Just waste of time.



I hope for a discussion, but not for single points. I want to stay at all the points. I know the big units will come and just cry over point E and the discussion will only go in this direction. But its only one point of many.

Edited by Contrex, 13 June 2016 - 01:09 AM.


#2 Danjo San

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Posted 13 June 2016 - 05:07 AM

I will try to address your points one by one, sorry in advance if I miss something

View PostContrex, on 13 June 2016 - 01:08 AM, said:

A ) We have too many factions. The Lore tells us which factions we have and Mechwarrior cant be played without these factions. True.... But we can get one step further.
If the lore is the problem, we have a simple solution:
Every faction can not only vote an enemy he wants to attack, every faction should also be able to vote a faction to work with. This means : If Steiner votes Davion, Steiner pilots should be able to attack for Davion. The planet which is attacked can only be tagged by the faction which is directly attacking the planet. So steiner tags cant be found on a planet, if the planet is conquered through the davion attack phase.
If we have partners to attack with, we cut the amount of factions by 50%.
Another solution would be: Every IS should be able to attack with any faction, if a clan faction is attacked. The tag goes as well to the faction which is able to attack the planet.
The same way for the Clans on the other side

Interesting Point... I do think this would render Mercs utterly useless. Go Loyalist then and and still get all the Matches.
to keep it "Lore" you could only group allies together when fighting IS vs. IS battles. You would have to introduce "Allied Chat" calling for Arms. Also when grouping in this manner, it would remove one, or maybe even two possible attack lanes. As why should you vote to attack your allies? From a Liao perspective aside the fact that Marik and Liao would attack Davion together to form groups, I doubt that Davion would show up to defend. I don't think it would work out as you hope it would... but to move on to the next point

View PostContrex, on 13 June 2016 - 01:08 AM, said:

B ) Scouting System - and rewards: The Scoutinsystem was a nice idea. But for the people who just love CW is it realy annyoing. If you play a 12vs12 with 2 even teams you want to compare with them. If the enemy already knows where you are going it is realy annoying, but if they even have a Longtom, you dont need to fight at all. So i think there should NO influence at all for the factiongames by scoutgames. There must be any other reward for scoutmatches, then longtom or satelitesweep. I think the best solution would solve another problem as well: Only one planet in one attackphase. If a planet is at 100% none is attacking or defending anymore. So let people scout planets without an attackphase and if they are successfull, the faction gets a second planet in the next phase to attack. So you would be able to attack more planets AND you would not have any influence into the CW games.

I like the scouting mode, I like the fast paced matches, I like the way it benefits the invasion queue. I think Long Tom is still too powerful but Enemy Info and Satellite Sweep are great in both directions. If your Team has the disadvantage you need to adapt and change tactics, which leads to more variety in the way matches play out. not just the same wash, rinse, repeat as before.
Your proposal of gaining a second attack lane for succesful scouting IMO will result in large units spamming the scout missions to activate two lanes, then zerging two planets. As I said... Longtom needs to be toned down more, the rest can stay the way it is

View PostContrex, on 13 June 2016 - 01:08 AM, said:

C) Too many new players at FP: I think people should have been played at least 100 quickgames before they are able to play CW.

After 100 Matches Players will still be new to the dynamics of FP! They will have to learn the mechanics no matter how many matches they played prior to that.
Other than that, some players have second accounts. like myself, when I am tired of Davion not defending, I like to log in to my second account where I select Merc Contracts and go whereever I can find a quick Match. I play Trial Mechs effectively on that account, I never QP in it! It is just for FP. My Account is TIER 5 as I don't QP! I have done Top Damage in Trial Mechs alone. Gating that to 100 QP Matches... you'll lose Players that second accounts like I do. Why should I have to do 100 Matches? I have played tens of thousands of Matches just not in that account! New Players are not always new Players.
How about this as a compromise:
Create a Tutorial in the Mechwarrior Academy, to unlock FP you have to achieve a Gold Level. You know like the first running maneuver tutorial which you can complete in copper silver or gold. At the beginning Captain Adams explains that FP is a "hardcore" Game Mode that requires better coordination and teamwork and that you have to complete a obstacle course in order to prove you're ready to jump into the deep end of the pool. It is a skill based unlock gate. not some random number that says nothing about skill and willingness to coordinate. (You can play 10.000 Matches and still suck at the game and be unwilling to coordinate and unwilling to follow orders and build dumb mechs.) This way alternative accounts are not forced to play X Numbers of Matches in order to get a FP Match. Grind through the tutorial once and bam ... done ready to go.

View PostContrex, on 13 June 2016 - 01:08 AM, said:

D) Unitqueue and Soloqueue: I hate playing against random groups. Its just boring, Waste of time. Its even more boring, if the playes in there are not in a team. Its like fighting trees in WOW to raise ur lumberjackskills. Its grinding. So there are 2 opportunities: Play CW as it is and lose many of the teams who want to fight other teams OR split the queue for groups of at least 8 people playing and the rest. You can fill with 4 randoms if there are only 8 players in the team. Factiongame is somekind of teamgame. If you dont have a team dont play a teamgame. Its no fun at all for randomgroups just to get farmed by 12man as well. There must be a solution. The way it is at the moment is one of the mainreasons FP is going down.

I disagree. Use Voip and coordinate. Been there. Done that. Won that. I dropped Solo in a Queue with randoms and led them to victory against a full team. Solo Players also have skills. That's why the Split Queue was useless and abandoned shortly after and Solo Players just created one man tags so not having to be in the Solo Queue. just because they are Solo does not mean they cant follow orders or coordinate.
Many Players in larger Units ignore the VOIP tool. You are either on their TS or out of the coordination and that is a problem. My Unit drops and communicates on our TS but we ALWAYS coordinate with the rest of the Team! And it works
Splitting low population means excluding. By all means what we need to do is include. fill the queue with as many new players as possible and create an eviroment they enjoy and makes them want to stay. Taunting Players that are clearly beginners with Stuff like... "**** train incoming..." or "come out little puggies, we want to farm all of you" creates the exact opposite.

View PostContrex, on 13 June 2016 - 01:08 AM, said:

E) Big Mercunits: One month ago every single top10 mercunit (but NS) joined the falcons. What happened? MAAAANY ghostdrops. There had been so mutch attackers and not enough defenders. So they started scouting for the longtom as well (because they had been bored) and then there had been even less defender. It was just badluck, all the big units had been joining JF at the same time. So reduce the chance to get all the big units together in one big pool, you have to do treat them as mercs. So you have 2 ways to do this:

1) Factions offer contracts, if a faction is full of mercs they should not offer anymore contracts. Actualy i think only the less 5 played factions should offer contracts. The top 5 should NOT. So mercs will be treated as what they are, soldiers who fight for everyone, who gives them a job.

2) Big merc units should not be able to get short contracts. The bigger a unit is, the less flexible it has to be. To ship all the mechs from one faction to another faction needs plenty of time. Actualy they should be able to get short contracts as well, but have a long time to move from one faction to antoher faction withoug been able to fight. But this way, we would hurt ourself. So the bigger a merc unit is: the longer it has to stay at one faction.
The reason is: its unlikely to happen, that too many mercunits join the same faction at one time. Less factionswitch = less risk for too many mercs at one faction.
I know many people here in the forum will start crying at the last point, just because they are a part of a big unit.

Big Units... yep that is a big one. I have stated my oppinion on this many times and so I will keep it short: All Units no matter if Loyalist or MERC need a cap. The Population is too low to have large clusters.
There should be limited contracts for each Faction to be able to distribute the mercs evenly. resulting in more chances of getting drops and not have "all the big units avoid each other"
Also now in an enviroment where large units have it significantly easier to gain planetary rewards keeps small units from seeing any incentive in playing CW... If they see no chance in gaining rewards, why go there in the first place. It is a real issue. And the solution can not be to join a large unit. Why would we need units then anyway? if all Liao just joined TCAF or all Davion just joined HHOD etc. etc. makes sense?
I know the large Units will cry about this one again and refer to small units that are highly competitive and gain planets... but overall spoken. If you are in a small casual unit you should still be able to get decent rewards. even If you can only fight for 2 hours an evening. Having 4 Drops if everything runs optimal and you win all 4 of them

View PostContrex, on 13 June 2016 - 01:08 AM, said:

F) Ghostdrops: Nothing to explain. Just waste of time.

Ghostdrops are a pain in the butt. absolutely! Yes they are a waste of time. They however are a result of low population, and large clusters moving to the same spot at the same time. large and competitive teams condescending on beginners and pugs and taunting and insulting them along the way. Also leaving little to no incentive for the casuals to play CW. How to get rid of them? Create an enviroment that includes players of all types and follow a code of honor. Don't droprape, don't insult. don't exclude by not using voip. The players are in your team, even if they are not in your teamspeak or unit, they are part of your team. So act like teamplayers.

Hope I could briefly adress all points. Your list is long and breaking it down may ease the discussion. I know you want to have a good and fund experience playing CW, we are on the same page. it is all I hope for as well...
Cheers

#3 Contrex

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Posted 13 June 2016 - 05:25 AM

I pointed our several problems. The problems are real, because its a summary of opinions of many players i spoke to.
The way to solve them does not mather. But every single point needs to discussed not only negativly like: "bad suggestion - does not work either" but positivly: "hey i dont like your solution, but here is another one".

We will never get the point where anyone likes all the solutions someone will offer. But a positive discussion to improve single solutions would be great. I see your arguments, and i think your thoughts about them are not too far away, the point is:

Any solution will bring some argumentation against it. The way to solve this is to improve the solutions together, not telling "that wont work and this too".

At the moment FW does not work and we realy need a change. So start positivly discussing and not telling "its not working" Posted Image

Because i DO think my solutions might work but i would love to read other solutions. (like point C) Tutorial for new players)... love this idea!

Edited by Contrex, 13 June 2016 - 05:27 AM.






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