12 replies to this topic

[TheArisen]

As some of you may know, I'm a big fan of the Nightstar batllemech. As discussion went on about the mech the question was posed as to who should be the hero. FLG01 came up with this and I wanted to share it because it's pretty good and if/when the Nightstar makes it in game I think it'd be fun to have a community created hero.

Edited by TheArisen, 29 October 2016 - 11:05 PM.

[FLG 01]

You certainly have a lot of passion in promoting the Nightstar! Just a little correction and explanation: it is not a spelling mistake, the name is Xaver Murr.

I needed a name and looked for a Catholic counter-reformist and a Waffen-SS officer, because the Word of Blake was obviously the religious counter-reformist movement to ComStar and it was, well, quite evil. (... not saying all SS-soldiers and all WoB members were evil though).
So first I took the name of Francis Xavier, one of the main Jesuit saints who became a popular namesake especially in Spain. In Germany the name was usually altered to Xaver, but also popular among Catholics. The last name is taken from Heinz Murr, a tank commander noted for bravery on the battlefield.
Combining these two I ended with Xaver Murr.

On another note: being taken down by infantry seems a little weird, but there is actually an extremely similar incident in canon. On Pandora, GDL infantry captured Star Colonel T'daal after using inferno missiles to overheat his Masakari.

[TheArisen]

FLG 01, on 13 June 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

You certainly have a lot of passion in promoting the Nightstar! Just a little correction and explanation: it is not a spelling mistake, the name is Xaver Murr.

I needed a name and looked for a Catholic counter-reformist and a Waffen-SS officer, because the Word of Blake was obviously the religious counter-reformist movement to ComStar and it was, well, quite evil. (... not saying all SS-soldiers and all WoB members were evil though).
So first I took the name of Francis Xavier, one of the main Jesuit saints who became a popular namesake especially in Spain. In Germany the name was usually altered to Xaver, but also popular among Catholics. The last name is taken from Heinz Murr, a tank commander noted for bravery on the battlefield.
Combining these two I ended with Xaver Murr.

On another note: being taken down by infantry seems a little weird, but there is actually an extremely similar incident in canon. On Pandora, GDL infantry captured Star Colonel T'daal after using inferno missiles to overheat his Masakari.

Well it is pretty easy to write a paragraph then copy & paste.

I think him getting beat by infantry is understandable considering the NSR isn't really equipped to kill infantry & perhaps the story could be modified to have him already damaged when he was ambushed. Awesomes are common in Marik forces & are considered to be pretty good in lore. It could also have been a fight with a Banshee 3Q or some other Marik assault/heavy

[TheArisen]

Soku Yamashita did a piece on Xaver Murr's Nightstar.

[FLG 01]

Looks very nice indeed. I love the loadout on this Mechs, all these barrels...


I have just a minor nitpick: the refit was after the schism, so this Nightstar would display the Word of Blake sword-insignia, not the ComStar insignia. Unfortunately the extremely beautiful insignia of the 3rd Army (the emerald falconers) is wrong too, because it is a decidedly post-schism (heretic) ComGuard-formation. Which is a shame because it looks so nice.
This Nightstar would display the insignia of the 1st WoBM Division.
http://www.sarna.net...i/Word_of_Blake
http://www.sarna.net..._(Word_of_Blake))

It does not detract from the beauty of it. It is just that WoB and post-schism ComStar were mortal enemies...
Anyway my compliments to the artist!

Edited by FLG 01, 30 October 2016 - 10:44 AM.

[FLG 01]

Small clarification regarding Xaver Murr's career and timeline:

• 3019: born on Terra
  
• 3037: joining ComStar, deciding for a military career
  
• 3045: extended leave of absence to pursue a PhD (history)
  
• 3049: PhD, preparing to become a lecturer at Sandhurst
  
• 3050: recalled to active Mech service due to Clan threat, transfer to the 2nd Primus Guards Division [which is not the regular 2nd Division]
  
• 3052: schism, defection to WoB
  
• 3053: service on Gibson in the 1st Division of the WoBM, destruction and reconstruction of his NSR
  
• 3054: Battle of Gibson
  
• post 3075: MIA last seen with the 10th Division

(I have not yet figured out what he did between the Battle of Gibson 3054 and the end of the Jihad. But he is still out there).

Edited by FLG 01, 31 October 2016 - 03:47 PM.

[TheArisen]

FLG 01, on 13 June 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

On another note: being taken down by infantry seems a little weird, but there is actually an extremely similar incident in canon. On Pandora, GDL infantry captured Star Colonel T'daal after using inferno missiles to overheat his Masakari.

I was revisiting this and I'm not sure militia would have the discipline to pull this off. After all, the GDL are a top notch merc unit. Murr is supposed to be a skilled pilot so militia getting the upper hand seems unlikely.

To make up for the difference I came back to the idea that some kind of mech was part of the ambush. Maybe a light or medium, something the Nightstar would normally beat easily but when combined with infantry made for an even fight.

Maybe a Hermes?
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hermes
It does come with a flamer that'd complement the infantry's inferno missiles & normally it'd never be able to even threaten an assault mech. Plus it's the FWL's standard light so it's common.

[Karl Streiger]

well it is not so unlikely that a "MechKiller" Mech get swarmed and killed by infantry.

OK the Gauss PPC and Lasers wouldn't need a direct hit to kill a single infantry guy. a classic infantry squad on the march migh even be put down by a single MLAS blast (overheated air, and super-heated soil that explode like a grenade)

but consider infantry on attack - using cover - and keeping a low profile - the same laser blast must be much closer to the soldier.

and - you should not take "MWO" lasers into consideration

- real MWO lasers would use a super short blast - because you have a moving target -
you want the maximum of energy in a small area as fast as possible - you would not want laser cutters but "blasters"

so all those super devastating weapons when shooting armored targets would be nil when shooting the normal soldier and his rifle.

maybe the milita doesn't have the discipline to keep together when there is a avatar of destruction is closing, this is the question. But determined or desperate soldiers might make a stand (the stories of GDL were infantry beat a mech told by their parents when they were children might help)

[TheArisen]

Karl Streiger, on 11 November 2016 - 03:54 AM, said:

well it is not so unlikely that a "MechKiller" Mech get swarmed and killed by infantry.

OK the Gauss PPC and Lasers wouldn't need a direct hit to kill a single infantry guy. a classic infantry squad on the march migh even be put down by a single MLAS blast (overheated air, and super-heated soil that explode like a grenade)

but consider infantry on attack - using cover - and keeping a low profile - the same laser blast must be much closer to the soldier.

and - you should not take "MWO" lasers into consideration

- real MWO lasers would use a super short blast - because you have a moving target -
you want the maximum of energy in a small area as fast as possible - you would not want laser cutters but "blasters"

so all those super devastating weapons when shooting armored targets would be nil when shooting the normal soldier and his rifle.

maybe the milita doesn't have the discipline to keep together when there is a avatar of destruction is closing, this is the question. But determined or desperate soldiers might make a stand (the stories of GDL were infantry beat a mech told by their parents when they were children might help)

I suppose it'd make sense too if they were targeting Murr or his mech because I'd imagine it'd require a lot of ammo to take down an assault mech even if it can't use all of it's weapons.

Thinking some more about it I suppose the infantry that setup the ambush would be relatively experienced if they were to take it on.

[FLG 01]

I have thought long and hard about this, and I have several reasons why I think it is important that the original Nightstar of Murr was destroyed by lowly infantry. So here is a somewhat longer response.

To be honest, I do not think there is anything special about a Mech being destroyed by infantry. In that particular case it was well hidden, well prepared infantry ambushing an unaware Mech and getting thus the first shot. Using missile launchers and infernos, it is not that difficult actually. And there is very little the Mech could do in this situation. Sure infantry losses will be high but once the Mech walks into the trap...

Depending on your set of rules this is easily replicated in TT matches, too. That is, btw., why I included that flamer-bit in the story: the best way to avoid infantry ambushes in the forest is to burn the woods. And Gauss Rifles and PPCs are really a bad choice when combatting infantry. Mech-Killer Mechs dying to infantry is the price one has to pay for overspecialization. Heck, against a Nightstar you might get away with a good old "Banzai!" and satchel charges if you are willing to sacrifice your infantry squads.

Which leads back to Gibson and the GFL. The Gibson Freedom League had no Mechs at all iirc. Yet they waged a guerrilla war against one of the best trained and best equipped forces of the Inner Sphere for more than a year – and actually won it. I personally think the novel detailing those events is horrible but it drew direct inspiration from the Vietnam War. The GFL is the Vietcong, the WoBM is the US Army. It is heavy handed at best (as I said, I truly dislike the novel), but it has a point: all your technological terror might be brought down by a fanatic enemy.
And here is where I am more forgiving about the novel. The Word of Blake learned the power of fanaticism. They were too sure of their victory, too trusting in their nominal superiority. The defeat on Gibson was certainly a stepping stone for the WoB to become fanatic itself.

The same is true for Xaver Murr himself. He was always a true believer in ComStar's mission, but he also had strong intellectual leanings and would have become a historian (albeit teaching ComGuard cadets at Sandhurst) had it not been for the Clans. In the German subforum I wrote a short story featuring his historical works. The man is an academic at heart. But then he was thrown into the Gibson War for which he, like everyone else, was totally unprepared. The dirty war, the destruction of his Nightstar, and victory that was robbed from him and his comrades left some deep mental scars paving the way to become a more radical Wobbie himself.

As I said, the story is kind of a pars pro toto. It would lose a bit of emotional impact and it would imo make less sense if the Nightstar were destroyed by a more conventional force. Murr could have dealt much better with a defeat at the hands of an equal enemy, and consequently he may not have asked for a redesigned NSR.

I hope I could explain it a bit why I think this is an important element of the story and not totally out of line.

[TheArisen]

FLG 01, on 12 November 2016 - 07:22 AM, said:

I have thought long and hard about this, and I have several reasons why I think it is important that the original Nightstar of Murr was destroyed by lowly infantry. So here is a somewhat longer response.

To be honest, I do not think there is anything special about a Mech being destroyed by infantry. In that particular case it was well hidden, well prepared infantry ambushing an unaware Mech and getting thus the first shot. Using missile launchers and infernos, it is not that difficult actually. And there is very little the Mech could do in this situation. Sure infantry losses will be high but once the Mech walks into the trap...

Depending on your set of rules this is easily replicated in TT matches, too. That is, btw., why I included that flamer-bit in the story: the best way to avoid infantry ambushes in the forest is to burn the woods. And Gauss Rifles and PPCs are really a bad choice when combatting infantry. Mech-Killer Mechs dying to infantry is the price one has to pay for overspecialization. Heck, against a Nightstar you might get away with a good old "Banzai!" and satchel charges if you are willing to sacrifice your infantry squads.

Which leads back to Gibson and the GFL. The Gibson Freedom League had no Mechs at all iirc. Yet they waged a guerrilla war against one of the best trained and best equipped forces of the Inner Sphere for more than a year – and actually won it. I personally think the novel detailing those events is horrible but it drew direct inspiration from the Vietnam War. The GFL is the Vietcong, the WoBM is the US Army. It is heavy handed at best (as I said, I truly dislike the novel), but it has a point: all your technological terror might be brought down by a fanatic enemy.
And here is where I am more forgiving about the novel. The Word of Blake learned the power of fanaticism. They were too sure of their victory, too trusting in their nominal superiority. The defeat on Gibson was certainly a stepping stone for the WoB to become fanatic itself.

The same is true for Xaver Murr himself. He was always a true believer in ComStar's mission, but he also had strong intellectual leanings and would have become a historian (albeit teaching ComGuard cadets at Sandhurst) had it not been for the Clans. In the German subforum I wrote a short story featuring his historical works. The man is an academic at heart. But then he was thrown into the Gibson War for which he, like everyone else, was totally unprepared. The dirty war, the destruction of his Nightstar, and victory that was robbed from him and his comrades left some deep mental scars paving the way to become a more radical Wobbie himself.

As I said, the story is kind of a pars pro toto. It would lose a bit of emotional impact and it would imo make less sense if the Nightstar were destroyed by a more conventional force. Murr could have dealt much better with a defeat at the hands of an equal enemy, and consequently he may not have asked for a redesigned NSR.

I hope I could explain it a bit why I think this is an important element of the story and not totally out of line.

It's good I had already accepted Karl's answer but yours makes it just that much better.

[FLG 01]

I did not want to be defensive.
It is just that BattleTech is such a rich universe; its rules, its lore... With MWO we sometimes forget that PGI merely dips its toes into the deep ocean that is BattleTech.

[TheArisen]

FLG 01, on 13 November 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

I did not want to be defensive.
It is just that BattleTech is such a rich universe; its rules, its lore... With MWO we sometimes forget that PGI merely dips its toes into the deep ocean that is BattleTech.

Yeah I gotcha. I always try to give honest thought in a discussion and keep things cool.