16 replies to this topic

[Hotthedd]

I have no idea how the implementation of this map and mode ever made it past QC.
What am I missing? Is the IDEA behind this combination to be an auto-win for one side?

[Hit the Deck]

A Light should get on top of that hill intersecting the circle ASAP, ideally one with ECM so the enemy can't LRM him/her to death as soon as they see him/her.

[Hotthedd]

Hit the Deck, on 13 June 2016 - 06:11 AM, said:

A Light should get on top of that hill intersecting the circle ASAP, ideally one with ECM so the enemy can't LRM him/her to death as soon as they see him/her.

That is not always an option, and unless YOU are the light with ECM, there is absolutely no guarantee of that happening.

But that is beside the point. Yes, it IS possible to win on the "bad" side. I have been on a team that has done it (once), but it required the other team to play badly, pushing around the southern edge of the mountain outside of the circle, and leaving their snipers exposed.

The point is that this particular combination is SO uneven as to be broken. HOW does this happen?

[Afuldan McKronik]

At least it makes a fight in the less used ice lakes. Terra Therma/Domination is truely terrible.

[Mystere]

Afuldan McKronik, on 13 June 2016 - 07:45 AM, said:

At least it makes a fight in the less used ice lakes. Terra Therma/Domination is truely terrible.

Actually I like Domination on Terra Therma. If you're in the crater, you need to keep the enemy out if you want to win. And if you're outside, you need to get in to win.

This is so unlike Skirmish. There, you do not have to be in the crater. You can actually wait the enemy out. Just kill one of them and they will have to go out if they really want to win. But, people insist on going in there anyway just because.

Edited by Mystere, 13 June 2016 - 08:08 AM.

[Tangelis]

Domination period really wasn't well thought out. It doesn't matter what map it is.

Sadly.... the basic idea has so much potential it took a special kind of lazy to come up with what we have. It wouldn't surprise me if it was discussed and finalized over a company lunch break where there was more wine than talk.

[Mystere]

Tangelis, on 13 June 2016 - 08:56 AM, said:

Domination period really wasn't well thought out. It doesn't matter what map it is.

Sadly.... the basic idea has so much potential it took a special kind of lazy to come up with what we have. It wouldn't surprise me if it was discussed and finalized over a company lunch break where there was more wine than talk.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. See my post above.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Mystere, on 13 June 2016 - 08:59 AM, said:

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. See my post above.

Which is a well thought out opinion, without attacking anyone, that might have gotten attention had the overall posting style been more like yours.

And we wonder why we have nearly 0 discussion from the devs in GD.

[Khereg]

The maps were designed before the mode was implemented, so certain maps are definitely better than others when it comes to king of the hill. The placement of the dish becomes problematic on maps with a central feature if you don't put the dish right on top of that feature.

Alpine was worse (if you can believe that) with the original dish location in the bowl at the base of the big hill. The new location is an improvement, but it still favors a very specific style of game. If you don't have the build for it, it can be pretty painful.

Frozen City is so small, there's really only one dish location possible, for instance (which is probably a key reason it's getting a rework).

[Apnu]

Hotthedd, on 13 June 2016 - 06:22 AM, said:

That is not always an option, and unless YOU are the light with ECM, there is absolutely no guarantee of that happening.

But that is beside the point. Yes, it IS possible to win on the "bad" side. I have been on a team that has done it (once), but it required the other team to play badly, pushing around the southern edge of the mountain outside of the circle, and leaving their snipers exposed.

The point is that this particular combination is SO uneven as to be broken. HOW does this happen?

Just last night I was on a team that won on the "bad" side. And I was in a CDA-2A running the old Garth Erlam build (6xML). I, and our lights, played around the ring holding it as best we can while everybody else went around behind the ridge and pushed right into the enemy team still trying to snipe/LRM us. Once the push happened it was pure chaos and brawling. It was glorious.

[Hotthedd]

Khereg, on 13 June 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

The maps were designed before the mode was implemented, so certain maps are definitely better than others when it comes to king of the hill. The placement of the dish becomes problematic on maps with a central feature if you don't put the dish right on top of that feature.

Alpine was worse (if you can believe that) with the original dish location in the bowl at the base of the big hill. The new location is an improvement, but it still favors a very specific style of game. If you don't have the build for it, it can be pretty painful.

Frozen City is so small, there's really only one dish location possible, for instance (which is probably a key reason it's getting a rework).

Just moving the dish 25m east would be workable. They literally put the dish in such a place that only one team can get into the circle easily and without being fully exposed.
Terra Therma is at least EVEN for both teams. The problem is not the map, or the mode, but the absolutely TERRIBLE positioning that heavily favors one side over the other.
How does PGI let this happen?

[StumbleBee]

Apnu, on 13 June 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:

Just last night I was on a team that won on the "bad" side. And I was in a CDA-2A running the old Garth Erlam build (6xML). I, and our lights, played around the ring holding it as best we can while everybody else went around behind the ridge and pushed right into the enemy team still trying to snipe/LRM us. Once the push happened it was pure chaos and brawling. It was glorious.

I've done this too, and it's fun when it works. Unfortunately it requires more coordination than is typical in quick play, and if the "good" side is as coordinated it still has the edge. The question isn't whether one side always wins, it's whether one side wins significantly more often than not.

[Apnu]

StumbleBee, on 13 June 2016 - 02:25 PM, said:

I've done this too, and it's fun when it works. Unfortunately it requires more coordination than is typical in quick play, and if the "good" side is as coordinated it still has the edge. The question isn't whether one side always wins, it's whether one side wins significantly more often than not.

Most of us were doubtful and, to be honest, it sort of happened organically. There wasn't too much on coms about it. The fatties sort of stomped over there and everybody kinda followed. Despite that it was a tough fight and only 3 of us lived. Everybody seemed to have a good time tho.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Only way to win on the bad side is to basically scream FRACK IT CHARGE! and rush them and hope you can break their lines.

Doesn't work at all in group queue and it doesn't usually work in puglandia but it at least gives you a teeny tiny chance.

Edited by Narcissistic Martyr, 13 June 2016 - 02:49 PM.

[Roadkill]

Hotthedd, on 13 June 2016 - 06:22 AM, said:

The point is that this particular combination is SO uneven as to be broken. HOW does this happen?

Which spawn is allegedly the bad side? I've only managed to play Alpine Domination once since the map was changed, and my team spawned to the NW. (F6-ish area.) It looked like the other team spawned maybe in the K9 area?

My team won by pushing H6-I6-J7 and then wrapping around behind the enemy assaults which had somehow managed to get behind us at roughtly the J6/J5 line. Likely reason for the victory was that the enemy team split up, so I can't tell which side is the "bad" side from just that one match.

[Hotthedd]

Roadkill, on 13 June 2016 - 03:00 PM, said:

Which spawn is allegedly the bad side? I've only managed to play Alpine Domination once since the map was changed, and my team spawned to the NW. (F6-ish area.) It looked like the other team spawned maybe in the K9 area?

My team won by pushing H6-I6-J7 and then wrapping around behind the enemy assaults which had somehow managed to get behind us at roughtly the J6/J5 line. Likely reason for the victory was that the enemy team split up, so I can't tell which side is the "bad" side from just that one match.

The Southeast side (11 line) is the "bad" side. Mechs without jump jets cannot get into the circle without being 100% exposed to sniper/LRM fire, or a fire line of concealed brawlers between the dish and the mountain. Even ECM equipped jump capable lights are easy targets for good snipers (who usually vote for this map).

[Roadkill]

Hotthedd, on 13 June 2016 - 03:16 PM, said:

The Southeast side (11 line) is the "bad" side. Mechs without jump jets cannot get into the circle without being 100% exposed to sniper/LRM fire, or a fire line of concealed brawlers between the dish and the mountain. Even ECM equipped jump capable lights are easy targets for good snipers (who usually vote for this map).

Ah, thanks. So not only did we have tactics on our side, but we also had the good side.

Other than them splitting up, it seemed like a pretty good fight. It wasn't a wipe by any means... might have been something like 12-7 in the end. Don't remember for sure, but I know we lost a bunch of Mechs.