43 replies to this topic

[Aresye]

Snowbluff, on 14 June 2016 - 06:59 PM, said:

The CERLL and CLPL durations do annoy me.

For the damage and range it puts out, the CLPL duration is 100% fine where it is. That is one Clan weapon I can say with absolute certainly does NOT need a duration decrease.

CERLL? Completely agree. That weapon has been trash for quite awhile. A GHP-5P would absolutely destroy any CERLL boat trying to trade against it at long range.

[MischiefSC]

Aresye, on 15 June 2016 - 12:39 AM, said:

For the damage and range it puts out, the CLPL duration is 100% fine where it is. That is one Clan weapon I can say with absolute certainly does NOT need a duration decrease.

CERLL? Completely agree. That weapon has been trash for quite awhile. A GHP-5P would absolutely destroy any CERLL boat trying to trade against it at long range.

IS lpls need a longer burn. Tiny bit but yeah.

CERLLs need a shorter one. More than a tiny bit. Better to tweak the heat up a tiny bit or something similar; the long burn makes them so non-viable against anything they would trade against.

You can bloody near hit them with LRMs by the time the laser burn finishes.

[chucklesMuch]

no comment on OP 1250m IS missile boats...

lasers though... I don't really mind IS lasers and there range of quirks, from average to sublime, (other than the SL & SPL)... well actually I love them when i'm piloting non dakka IS mech's (I have a roughly 50/50 split of mechs)... but maybe something can something be done about c-ER-LL duration time and c-PPC heat... as i'm as likely to use either of them as I am a SL or SPL

...unless I suddenly get the urge to load up a range module, a TC and zoom and start sniping missile boats at 1250m...

Edited by chucklesMuch, 15 June 2016 - 02:21 AM.

[STEF_]

Douglas grizzly, on 14 June 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

a comparison is the stalker has a range quirk on lrms up to 1250 meters and the clans cannot compete at this range.

Right, and tbh C-lrm is inferior to IS, so I'd put 1500m range...to balance!

I'm sure that clan missiles will wreck any IS mech...after that 9 second ramming speed fly!!!!

[Charles Sennet]

Gyrok, on 14 June 2016 - 06:16 PM, said:

EDIT: Really, IS laser duration is the elephant in the room...as well as structure quirks.

Yes. Hit points (aka, structure quirks) and pinpoint damage (and better heat-managed DPS) are hugely on the side of IS right now and that is just too much for one side to have. The durability disparity alone is killing FW for most Clan players. Also, I'm getting tired of IS being able to bring their laser boats on Vitric Forge because environmental heat has little impact to them. That is an undeniable sign balance is broken.

[Charles Sennet]

Ken Harkin, on 14 June 2016 - 03:18 PM, said:

Clan XL vs IS XL. That is all that needs to be said.

If Clan XL is your definition of an advantage why then did IS mechs did structure quirks to all places besides side torsos? Clan XL's provides no benefits to CT, arms, and legs last I checked [sarcastic tone here]. Really sir, the structure quirks are excessive and are hurting balance big time. Why does one side get more hit points AND more pinpoint damage AND better heat management in this game? Confounding. With the exception of the one possibly OP build the Clans have (the quad UAC10 Kodiak) the pendulum swang too far and anyone who really understands this game (and wants a balanced game) can see that.

PS: Hit points in a game like this should be relatively equal.

[TWIAFU]

Douglas grizzly, on 14 June 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

the title says it all basically. With all of the quirks the is mechs have been getting due to the people whining about them its almost pointless to play clans. right now there are only 2 advantages and one is shaky at best.
1 clan mechs for the most part are faster than their counterparts in the is.
2 some of the clan weapons are better performers but since the is weapons cycle faster that offsets the clan weapons slightly higher damage.

To stay competitive the clans need one of two things or both. 1 give the clan mechs some strructture or armor quirks and also the other things is give the clan weaons some damage or range quirks. a comparison is the stalker has a range quirk on lrms up to 1250 meters and the clans cannot compete at this range.

This is what happens when a scout lance of URBIES beats a Scout Lance of Clams.

[Koniving]

Rampage, on 14 June 2016 - 03:37 PM, said:

I think the balance is pretty good right now but if they make any adjustments I would rather see quirks removed or toned down on IS Mech before adding any quirks to Clan Mechs. Fight the power creep!

This. The power creep is already really excessive, buffing further isn't the answer. Ease back instead.
When the car is on its way to crashing in about 2 minutes you don't hit the gas or slam on the brakes. There's time, ease off the gas and if necessary alter course around the obviously impending crash.

Edited by Koniving, 15 June 2016 - 04:59 AM.

[Dawnstealer]

LEAVE IS MECHS ALEEWWWWWWN

[xWiredx]

A slight increase to all IS laser burn times and slight decrease on clan ERLL burn time along with a slight decrease on the major heat penalty nerf bat for certain clan mechs would be just about right. to put the TBR on even footing with the BLK. The laser burn time, heat generation, and structure advantages that the Knight currently have compared to Timbies has made the choice between the two pretty obvious. In general, though, all clan lasers seem like slow-motion compared to IS lasers.

LRMs should never be part of an 'X is OP' discussion. I think making clan LRMs more easily countered by AMS compared to IS LRMs was a good concession for the clan LRMs being lighter. Sure, they're lighter so a comparable LRM boat can take some more ammo, but you're going to do less damage per salvo if there are enemies running AMS. We've known this to be fairly balanced for a decent amount of time now. This is why IS missile boats in a coordinated group are to be feared, and clan missile boats in a coordinated group are to be almost equally feared. As in, they piss you off when you're narced, but are otherwise considered pretty innocuous.

[Black Ivan]

Charles Sennet, on 15 June 2016 - 04:34 AM, said:

If Clan XL is your definition of an advantage why then did IS mechs did structure quirks to all places besides side torsos? Clan XL's provides no benefits to CT, arms, and legs last I checked [sarcastic tone here]. Really sir, the structure quirks are excessive and are hurting balance big time. Why does one side get more hit points AND more pinpoint damage AND better heat management in this game? Confounding. With the exception of the one possibly OP build the Clans have (the quad UAC10 Kodiak) the pendulum swang too far and anyone who really understands this game (and wants a balanced game) can see that.

PS: Hit points in a game like this should be relatively equal.

Excactly thoughts. IS Quirks at the moment make many Clan Mechs just suck and only a few viable.

[Yellonet]

All IS mechs UP, all Clan mechs OP. Fact.

[Novakaine]

G-rok you funny man.

[Lily from animove]

Moldur, on 14 June 2016 - 06:34 PM, said:

Pretty much. It justifies everything, even if quirks on some mechs "over-correct."

I don't really get what we're trying to salvage by not just giving both sides access to all the tech. Do we just pretend that lore hasn't been dead ever since Clans were anything besides strictly better? If we've been going the route of 1:1 balance (which I agree is better than making half the players cannon fodder,) then why bother with comparing and inaccurately attempting to balance the apples and oranges of asymmetric tech? Why bother with the flimsy middleman of quirks?

I also start to think gove both sides both tehcs and done, its sad to see all the is vs clan talk, people aren't able to see balance issues by the entire stupid discussion of clan vs is. Give both sides both tech and see which mehcs are overused and which underused. That often shows balance the best.

[iLLcapitan]

Ok my honest opinion: clans are hard-mode atm.

Sure they got some nice options and if you play well to their strenghts, you'll do just as fine as with your IS machines.
That beeing said, for new players it's like this:
One wrong step in any clan heavy and you get halfed.
IS mechs are in general more forgiving, due to structure quirks, less facetime, etc.

Don't make fun of people posting stuff like the OP, try to understand.

[SmokeGuar]

Nerf experienced players, buff n00bs, regardless which side players is.
Current system that assumes that all new players are on IS side has caused massive depopulation of Clan side.
Once player has build drop deck / identity on IS side, switching to oppo simply wont happen.

Balance seems to be so hard even experienced merc pilots don't like playing on Clan side, this new additional pay on contracts proves to be a massive bust.

IS XL is extra, comes with risk. Why is it assumed XL is somehow a standard part of IS builds?

[iLLcapitan]

SmokeGuar, on 15 June 2016 - 08:33 AM, said:

Nerf experienced players, buff n00bs, regardless which side players is.
Current system that assumes that all new players are on IS side has caused massive depopulation of Clan side.
Once player has build drop deck / identity on IS side, switching to oppo simply wont happen.

Balance seems to be so hard even experienced merc pilots don't like playing on Clan side, this new additional pay on contracts proves to be a massive bust.

IS XL is extra, comes with risk. Why is it assumed XL is somehow a standard part of IS builds?

My bet is that primarily experienced players enjoy playing clans because it's nice to change wallpapers from time to time. Balance is pretty good, each side can play to its trades.
But I think clans are harder to master for new players than IS mechs, at least at the current setup.

[visionGT4]

Perfect opportunity for the vat borns to demonstrate their martial superiority. Clams just need to git gud

[MischiefSC]

Balance is the best it's been in the games history and that is apparently ttotally unfair for some players.

We had badly broken balance for a couple of years and that became "normal" for some people. Now they're having to adjust to balance and it's feeling hard, because they're accustomed to being OP. You actually need to put the same effort in to building a good Clan mech you do into building a good IS mech. Gone are the days of bad Clan mechs still doing decent because of bad balance.

Clan mechs are faster and as such can be as much or more forgiving than IS mechs. Take a wrong turn in a Mauler and you're going to get eaten.

When you're used to being OP, balanced is hard.

[Ryllen Kriel]

Douglas grizzly, on 14 June 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

the title says it all basically.

If what you say is true, you should of stopped here then.

Because the rest is bollocks.