9 replies to this topic

[Gryphorim]

I'd like to throw down some concepts to help limit boating.

Basically we have 3 different weapons systems, each of which should have various negative effects to boating and by extension increase TTK.

Missiles: In the case of LRMs, I proposed here, that LRMs locked would have a "crowding" mechanic that limits the spread, based on number of missiles fired.
More missiles fired in a volley, the wider the spread. Hold lock for longer, missile spread tightens.
Fire repeated volleys, spread widens again.
In case of SRMs, a similar crowding mechanic, but instead of using a lock-on feature, is more passive, relying on time cursor held over mech to tighten spread. Not quite the same, but similar to lock-on.

Ballistics: For auto cannons I propose a "rattle" mechanic, where each AC produces "rattle" when it fires, and if ACs are fired fast enough, this "rattle" will accumulate, ramping up the jam chance. This can make regular ACs jam if boated, but still less often than UACs. UACs produce more "rattle" than they can handle if fired at double RoF, even on their own.

Energy: Heat should be the primary factor driving boating restrictions on energy weapons, so I am intersted to see how the new "power draw" system works out. I liked the idea that at high alpha, laser duration is dragged out, hopefully PGI find a way to make it play nice with HSR (as that's the hold-up on heatscale effects, apparently)

Edited by Gryphorim, 15 June 2016 - 01:32 AM.

[Yellonet]

Gryphorim, on 14 June 2016 - 11:53 PM, said:

I'd like to throw down some concepts to help limit boating.

Basically we have 3 different weapons systems, each of which should have various negative effects to boating and by extension increase TTK.

Missiles: In the case of LRMs, I proposed here, that LRMs locked would have a "crowding" mechanic that limits the spread, based on number of missiles fired.
More missiles fired in a volley, the wider the spread. Hold lock for longer, missile spread tightens.
Fire repeated volleys, spread widens again.
In case of SRMs, a similar crowding mechanic, but instead of using a lock-on feature, is more passive, relying on time cursor held over mech to tighten spread. Not quite the same, but similar to lock-on.

Ballistics: For auto cannons I propose a "rattle" mechanic, where each AC produces "rattle" when it fires, and if ACs are fired fast enough, this "rattle" will accumulate, ramping up the jam chance. This can make regular ACs jam if boated, but still less often than UACs. UACs produce more "rattle" than they can handle if fired at double RoF, even on their own.

Energy: Heat should be the primary factor driving boating restrictions on energy weapons, so I am intersted to see how the new "power draw" system works out. I liked the idea that at high alpha, laser duration is dragged out, hopefully PGI find a way to make it play nice with HSR (as that's the hold-up on heatscale effects, apparently)

LRM5 already is the best LRM missile for missile, your suggestion would make larger LRM launchers even less good.

[Gryphorim]

How so? "Crowding" as described here applies to the number of missiles fired per volley, not to size of each launcher. Spread also tightens based on lock time and widens based on RoF. rapid firing LRM5s would spread out missiles further than concentrated voleys from LRM20s.

[Snowbluff]

Some mechs have only 1 weapon type, and many others only have 1 or 2 back up points. You're asking to ruin whole classifications of mechs. The premise of your post is flawed.

[Andi Nagasia]

Gryphorim, on 14 June 2016 - 11:53 PM, said:

Energy: Heat should be the primary factor driving boating restrictions on energy weapons, so I am intersted to see how the new "power draw" system works out. I liked the idea that at high alpha, laser duration is dragged out, hopefully PGI find a way to make it play nice with HSR (as that's the hold-up on heatscale effects, apparently)

Hate to tell you, Power Draw will Limit Alphas not Energy Alphas but All Alphas,
Power here doesnt mean Energy or Electricity, but the Load(Alpha) on the System,

[LordNothing]

i really dont consider boating an issue. any high alpha needs to come with penalties, whether its a boat or not.

the best way to curbstomp a boat is to shoot it repeatedly until it dies.

Edited by LordNothing, 15 June 2016 - 07:35 PM.

[Dogstar]

TLDR: nerf LRMs more, nerf ACs, more pew pew!

[Kotzi]

Where exactly is the problem with boating weapons? Honest question, i cant see the problem. Fighting Laserboats in a 1 on 1, torsotwist. Fighting LRMboat, get closer. Fighting ACboat, well youre screwed cause only assaults can boat ACs, but anyone soloing an assault without the right firepower himself or speed and maneuverability is lost anyway.

[LordNothing]

people whined when they got instagibbed by 11 ppc direstars, uac80 whales, and lrm100 stalkers and the like. boating was perceived as cheap, so they whined and they got ghost heat because of it. then all the laser vomit people realized they could completely circumvent ghost heat by doing crazy laser configurations to get alphas that were just as huge but without penalty, and thats where we are now.

they could completely fix the problem by putting everything into one ghost heat group. or if you wanted to promote mixed loadouts, you group per hardpoint type. i actually wouldn't do the latter solution, because a lot of mechs have to boat due to their hard point configuration.

i also think the benefits to mixed loadouts come mostly with their versatility, and dont really need any extra heat efficiency. carry a ballistic for brawling, some missiles for ranged fighting, and some lasers for backup and you got something that can fight in almost any situation. i know my highlander iics seem to run hot constantly because they can continue to attack throughout the match despite rapidly changing battlefield situations. a jack of all trades is always useful to some degree, reguardless of the situation, but a situational build is useless in all the other situations. what good is a lerm boat or a camper when the match turns brawly, and what good is an srm boat in a standoff?

[Lykaon]

Snowbluff, on 15 June 2016 - 07:27 PM, said:

Some mechs have only 1 weapon type, and many others only have 1 or 2 back up points. You're asking to ruin whole classifications of mechs. The premise of your post is flawed.

Very strong point. there are several examples of "boating" in a mech's native stock loadout. This would make these mechs clearly inferior.

I think many people look at a problem (TTK) and don't really examine the key causes. Is it boating? not at all the source of damage isn't as important as three other factors.

Accuracy of damage
Frequency of damage application
Volume of damage applied

A mech with 4 AC5s is an AC boat but a mech that has a few ACs some lasers and some SRMs will also have the capacity to apply high volumes of accurate damage and frequently.

Essentially addressing "boating" without looking at the actual sources of the issue will simply shift the meta to what ever combined weapon loadout achieves the same or similar results.The added side effect would be mechs that lack apropriatley diverse hardpoint types to achieve the new meta are obsolete now.

End results are little to no change in TTK and even fewer mechs in common use.

So look at the root cause and not a development to optimize exploiting the actual causes. Because boating is only an evolution in the exploitation of the game design and not the cause.