423 replies to this topic

[Solis Obscuri]

I like what I'm seeing for the Locust and Spider, but the Panther is gonna be even more screwed.

[Mad Dog Morgan]

Lights are getting totally boned by this change.

You're going to see even less of them played now.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

Nexano, on 20 June 2016 - 03:07 PM, said:

I like this hysteria about light mechs. PGI did things right! TY for your hard work. Light pseudopilots won't be in game now and only skilled and persistent ppl will pilot them.

By your logic, almost everyone are heavy pseudopilots. Let's make the Timber twice as big now, shall we?

"Light pseudopilots" - They're the hardest weight class to do well in!*

(next to slow assaults, but building it wrong is your fault)

*except current oxide.

[DAEDALOS513]

Kalleballe, on 20 June 2016 - 12:58 PM, said:

You guys need to compare scale in this img, not mechlab...... Edit: Good job, finally the way it should have been from the beginning.

I'm confused.. your scale shows exactly the same relative heights as when using the pics from mechlab... panther still as tall as catapult/ marauder/ etc.
Thanks for nothing?

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 20 June 2016 - 06:14 PM.

[Rwraith]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 June 2016 - 06:11 PM, said:

weak class because of weak pilots and tactics and game modes. Most want to just run through middle of pack relying on lagshield. Even a lot of comps. Dont feel sorry for them.

Weak class is weak class. This game is set up to award damage. If you play light like a scout you get squat at the end. You can scout and target and tag and UAV until you face is blue. If you are rank three or above you can hope to get a = at the end of a match. If they are going to nerf lights and FORCE people to be scouts then they need to make scouting a viable alternative.

Vaskadar, on 20 June 2016 - 06:01 PM, said:

Lights are getting totally boned by this change.

You're going to see even less of them played now.

The "scout" lances are going to be full of mediums and heavies.

[p4r4g0n]

Size =/= height.

It is either height X width for a 2D game or height x width x depth for 3D.

And I still cannot find a post from PGI that says the re-scaling was an attempt at balancing. Link would be appreciated.

[baropara]

Could somebody explain if there is known reason why Firestarter can't turn up-down its torso? By making him higher this becomes more issue for me.

[Lily from animove]

Bush Hopper, on 20 June 2016 - 01:06 PM, said:

It is pretty easy:
Lights were obviously too tough for PGI's but mostly heavy and assault pilot's liking (just face it, the reason is really that simple). Streaks and LRMs were not enough obviously to make a light's life hard

lrm's makign alights life hard? when where? and streaks? just face streaks and see them spread. any PP damage system si what truly makes a lghts pilots life hard becaus low HP and high PP cna screw your day very quickly. But surely not stupid spread dmg systems.

DAEDALOS513, on 20 June 2016 - 06:13 PM, said:

I'm confused.. your scale shows exactly the same relative heights as when using the pics from mechlab... panther still as tall as catapult/ marauder/ etc.
Thanks for nothing?

being tall isn't that much of an issue, being wide is a real issue because that is what affects twistabilities and spreadweapons while moving. Also sideprofile is a important thign, cna you hide oyur CT or not? And this si why even with rescale the acta isn't that "amazing" CT area is sitll large to hit.

Edited by Lily from animove, 21 June 2016 - 01:27 AM.

[DemonRaziel]

p4r4g0n, on 20 June 2016 - 09:09 PM, said:

And I still cannot find a post from PGI that says the re-scaling was an attempt at balancing. Link would be appreciated.

It wasn't the goal, no. But it does affect balance.

That has to be acknowledged and taken into consideration.

[adamts01]

What the hell PGI? Do you want even fewer lights? Do you ever play this game? Do you have any clue what your customers want? It sure as hell isn't this.

baropara, on 21 June 2016 - 12:45 AM, said:

Could somebody explain if there is known reason why Firestarter can't turn up-down its torso? By making him higher this becomes more issue for me.

In the beginning it was absolute king with 8spl. The limited torso pitch was all that made it not flat out better than the Jenner in every way. Now that a 36 point alpha isn't anything special on a light I say it could use an adjustment. That's always what kept me from choosing the Jenner over it.

[ImperialKnight]

0% Lights queue in 3....2....

[Nexano]

Keshav Murali, on 20 June 2016 - 06:08 PM, said:

By your logic, almost everyone are heavy pseudopilots. Let's make the Timber twice as big now, shall we?

"Light pseudopilots" - They're the hardest weight class to do well in!*

(next to slow assaults, but building it wrong is your fault)

*except current oxide.

What not changed:

Is lights still can make sideattack to enemy havies make them look at him and then runaway? Yes.
Is lights still can takedown heavy damaged mechs of any weigth? Yes.
Is lights still can look for enemy, find it and then escape? Yes.
Is lights still can act like firesupport and use they mobility to survive in big fight, by using his heavy and assault comrades and terrain cover? Yes.
Can ligth still troll enemy from long range and make backstab? Yes.

Changes:
Can light enter in direct fire combat with mid/close ranged heavy/assault and make takedown? No.

Most important thing is to place youself right and don't get into heavy fire of enemy mechs. That's what you can learn from piloting urbie and locust(basically of you get heavy hit while piloting light mech - you die). And what about 35 tonners? Well you know it's almost medium mech tonnage edge of light mechs. I mean why 35 tonners must be much lesser size then 40 tonners. 35 tonners have great firepower(compared to other lights) more armour and same speed and size(before rescaling)... and... why so? PGI fixed this and thats right thing to do.

Thats what light about now. Can't see anything wrong here. I'm personally pilot urbie and i will stay with him whatever changes will be added to game.

One more thing for ppl criyng about to small cata and giant wolfhound. Wolfie still have flat stature and can protect his torses by hands(personally never seen wolfy die without hand lost - almost magical ) Cata have pretty long side profile that's don't protected by her hands at all. That's mean you can't save you sidetorso from direct fire whatever turntrade you make.

Edited by Nexano, 21 June 2016 - 03:14 AM.

[Kiriesani]

The Jenner and the Locust used to be basically the same and it was totally screwed up. I've been waiting for this since the day I started playing the game. The game isn't based on weight classes anymore, it's based on tonnage, so whining about "lights" is stupid. With the way the group queue works now "classes" of mechs don't matter. Considering I keep coming up against enemy teams of 8 assaults that are 95+ tons the "class" of the mech doesn't matter.

Take me back to 3x3x3x3 and then you can complain. The locust and the Jenner used to be basically the same size. That was screwed up any way you look at it. If you could play lights before and can't now you shouldn't have been playing them to begin with. PGI decided that weight = power in MWO a long time ago and they've been making changes ever since to reflect that.

You can load up 7 medium pulse on a firestarter and you want to complain about it being the right size? You can't even really load that on a mech 10 tons heavier in any reasonable way.

People are going to flock to locusts until they realize how ****** it is to be a locust. I know. It's my favorite mech since it came out. It's been ****** since they reversed the 3M quirks making the 1E and 1M the only good variants. Then they removed all the range the other locusts got to lasers. What are we going to see? A lot of 1Vs which are, by and large, worthless.

The change in size, by the way, made the Pirate's Bane even worse. The thing has no pitch to begin with. You WONT be able to hit anything but legs and only if you're on the same height of terrain. PGI's choice to make the thing entirely torso mounted was terrible.

[Lily from animove]

Inexile, on 21 June 2016 - 03:25 AM, said:

The Jenner and the Locust used to be basically the same and it was totally screwed up. I've been waiting for this since the day I started playing the game. The game isn't based on weight classes anymore, it's based on tonnage, so whining about "lights" is stupid. With the way the group queue works now "classes" of mechs don't matter. Considering I keep coming up against enemy teams of 8 assaults that are 95+ tons the "class" of the mech doesn't matter.

Take me back to 3x3x3x3 and then you can complain. The locust and the Jenner used to be basically the same size. That was screwed up any way you look at it. If you could play lights before and can't now you shouldn't have been playing them to begin with. PGI decided that weight = power in MWO a long time ago and they've been making changes ever since to reflect that.

You can load up 7 medium pulse on a firestarter and you want to complain about it being the right size? You can't even really load that on a mech 10 tons heavier in any reasonable way.

People are going to flock to locusts until they realize how ****** it is to be a locust. I know. It's my favorite mech since it came out. It's been ****** since they reversed the 3M quirks making the 1E and 1M the only good variants. Then they removed all the range the other locusts got to lasers. What are we going to see? A lot of 1Vs which are, by and large, worthless.

The change in size, by the way, made the Pirate's Bane even worse. The thing has no pitch to begin with. You WONT be able to hit anything but legs and only if you're on the same height of terrain. PGI's choice to make the thing entirely torso mounted was terrible.

hopefully pgi will add some pitch to the locust. A good thing now is the IFR is now not a plain out worse choice anymore because the gap between it and many 35t mechs is now lowered.

Edited by Lily from animove, 21 June 2016 - 03:55 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Lily from animove, on 21 June 2016 - 01:25 AM, said:

lrm's makign alights life hard? when where? and streaks? just face streaks and see them spread. any PP damage system si what truly makes a lghts pilots life hard becaus low HP and high PP cna screw your day very quickly. But surely not stupid spread dmg systems.

You need to abort attack runs when you are under fire and seek cover. Disengaging means you often take some more hits. This adds up over a fight. And once more for you: I said "makes life harder" not "kill them".

Oh, and a streak crow / streak dog will kill you in your light if the pilot has any idea what he is doing.

[Lily from animove]

Bush Hopper, on 21 June 2016 - 04:03 AM, said:

You need to abort attack runs when you are under fire and seek cover. Disengaging means you often take some more hits. This adds up over a fight. And once more for you: I said "makes life harder" not "kill them".

Oh, and a streak crow / streak dog will kill you in your light if the pilot has any idea what he is doing.

you are the light, you are faster, you decide where an engagement happens if you fight in the open so he can streak you, yes he will kill you, but then you made the mistake for choosing the wrong location for an engagement.

Edited by Lily from animove, 21 June 2016 - 04:14 AM.

[p4r4g0n]

DemonRaziel, on 21 June 2016 - 01:28 AM, said:

It wasn't the goal, no. But it does affect balance.

That has to be acknowledged and taken into consideration.

Given some of the posts in the re-scale feedback topics, many apparently seem to be living in an alternate world where it apparently is the goal of re-scaling.

In any case, PGI already indicated that a re-balancing via another phase of quirks would be done once re-scale was completed, if not from the outset, certainly in the last Town Hall where it was stated that there would likely be additional quirk changes in July following the release of the re-scaled mechs.

Not sure what additional form of acknowledgement people expect. I would not hold my breath waiting for a Dev to post in the forums on this issue.

[Team Leader]

Decided after a fairly long hiatus to drop in on MWO and see what's new. WOW, what a patch to come in on! This should be, interesting... to say the least.

[Autologus]

I don't have a problem with not changing the size of the Commando but you could have at least re-scaled the huge weapon pods that get attached to the arms. They are so large if someone even thinks of shooting in that direction the arms fall off. If a Commando loses its arms it is useless.

Edited by Autologus, 21 June 2016 - 05:58 AM.

[Mister Bob Dobalina]

I was reading through the novels again a little and it gave me roughly an idea why we are so Heavy/Assault - heavy (pun intended) "today". During the first few novels (Grey Death etc.) I got the impression that the battlefields if the fourth succession war were mainly populated by light and medium Mechs. Heavies were rarer and quite elite and Assaults were like one in a million. Deeper into the novels it seems that focus slowly shifted towards Heavy and Assault Mechs. Their sight becoming quite common and the mediums taking over many roles the lights had. Additionally, armored infantry in the wake of the Elemental forces (and especially the, I'm sorry but I find them ridicoulos, ProtoMechs) have closed the gap to light Mech MO pretty much.

I am considering, that I might be completely wrong here, as it reflects only my personal perception of the matter. But I wonder what your perception is (referring to canon and novels).

Edited by Thomster, 21 June 2016 - 07:19 AM.