21 replies to this topic

[-FLY]

As I had heard from no guts no galaxies podcast, it seemed the kodiak has the upper hand....my question is...what do you people think?

[John1352]

AS7-S will beat a Spirit Bear brawler 1v1. The atlas has more favorable torso hitboxes, better SRM spread and better quirks. Spirit bear is good for closing distances against ranged mechs by using MASC.

At longer range, the Kodiak's high side torso mounts (particularly KDK-3) and somewhat high arms make it much better than the Atlas. The atlas needs to get about 60% out of cover before its low mounted hardpoints won't hit the ground. A KDK-3 can doubletap 4 UAC10s and get back into cover before the Atlas can fire without hitting terrain.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

The better pilot, everytime.
Go watch the original Conan the Barbarian and study the riddle of steel yourself.

Now, assuming all things equal, pilot skill included then the answer depends on a few factors.

First of all, Atlas does not have the variety of viable builds like a Kodiak. The 4x Srm6 and AC20 on the AS-7s is the gold standard for Atlas builds. The DDC comes in 2nd place with 3x Srm6 and an AC20. All the rest are pretty meh at best.

Only the Kodiak Spirit bear is comparable to the Atlas in this regard, with 4x Srm6 and some form of a clan ac20.

In a face tanky brawl with neither side backing down, the Atlas will win easily. It has better structure quriks, will handle heat more efficiently and be able to get off more shots, and also have more concentrated fire than the Spirit Bear.

The Spirit Bears best chance in a 1 on 1 against a brawler Atlas would be to try to use its speed advantage over the Atlas- ie try to hit and disengage before the Atlas can return fire. Very tricky to do and also largely depends on the map, but can be done.

So over all, Atlas remains the brawler king.

Now for any other form of ranged combat, the Kodiak wins period. The Atlas is just too slow and has its weapon mounts too low to be effective at anything but spitting distance.

The only question left for OP is: did a 12 year old with a Kodiak spank you?

Edited by Boogie138, 15 June 2016 - 05:35 PM.

[-FLY]

Boogie138, on 15 June 2016 - 05:35 PM, said:

The only question left for OP is: did a 12 year old with a Kodiak spank you?

well, mister boogie138, I try not to sound hurt, but I don't care anymore whether a 12 years old kid or a 90 years old grandma hits me with a kodiak, I will always use my cicada-3M to shoot any kodiaks from behind....a 26 damage per shot how do you think my chances are?

[Moldur]

I think the Atlas is favorable in a 1v1. There is nobody else to watch out for in a 1v1, so position is a lot more lenient. So long as a person can close the gap- which is easier than maintaining a gap by walking backward- it comes down to who has more faith in their ability to brawl and roll.

Boogie gave a pretty good breakdown. We don't have every situation available in MWO, so I think the relatively short lines of sight on most maps would favor the Atlas.

[-FLY]

tier 6? I would love to have that

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Depends on the map, but a jump capable kodiak with gauss and 2x ErLL will probably win in most maps. Given amp engine speed to manuever and setup

[Void Angel]

The Kodiak - 3 will win, every time. It will simply chew through the Atlas with raw firepower, and it will often begin doing so at significantly longer range than the Atlas can even fight effectively - sure, you don't charge over an open field with an Atlas, but neither can you guarantee that all of your fights begin at under 270m, no matter how careful you are with sight lines.

Other variants (like the 4) can apply similar close-range tactics to have the edge, though they do have to keep an eye on their heat. Some of the biggest reasons for the Kodiak's superiority is that 1) the KDK-3 is really broken right now, and 2) Clantech's superior ballistic size means that can carry more upgrades while still retaining firepower (this is especially important for variants like the 3 and 4, who can carry multiple UAC/10s in the same torso while still even getting an XL.)

It's not a gamebreaking difference, and thank Comstar we're not having to go it alone with any 'mech - but the Kodiak does indeed look like it should have the advantage to me. It's got the same mobility quirks as an Atlas, a much higher practical engine size, and more available firepower. The modest difference between the Atlas' and the Kodiak's structure quirks seems more than offset by that firepower and the superior mobility of that giant Clan XL.

[InspectorG]

Boogie138, on 15 June 2016 - 05:35 PM, said:

The better pilot, everytime.
Go watch the original Conan the Barbarian and study the riddle of steel yourself.

+1 internets for you.

[InspectorG]

Face to face brawl sub-300m no outstanding terrain: Atlas-S most times.

People forget good Atlas pilots unload SRMs, twist, untwist-unload AC20, twist, etc...
Not sure the Kodiak can do that with SRM and ACs that are so tightly grouped vs an Altas with big armor buffs.

Add in a map favorable to the Kodiak, cold with decent terrain and the margin may slim.

As far as other builds, Kodaik can smash any Atlas before it got close enough to brawl.

[justcallme A S H]

InspectorG, on 15 June 2016 - 07:45 PM, said:

People forget good Atlas pilots unload SRMs, twist, untwist-unload AC20, twist, etc...
Not sure the Kodiak can do that with SRM and ACs that are so tightly grouped vs an Altas with big armor buffs.

The SB can be run like that, essentially as a faster Atlas, but it's just not as good in the tanking role. Even with a double tap UAC20 doesn't make it as scary.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e907123b1864cb9
(you can vary that build plenty but you get the basic idea)
In the days the KDK's came out we tested out brawls in them against the AS7-S, the Atlas wont the brawl every single time (different pilots as well). It just does it all better and the SRM spread on the Atlas is far better and that's where the DMG is really coming from.

BUT that said the SB isn't to be viewed as a pure 300m brawler. More a line BREAKER. It can start UAC20'ing from 400m and basically MASC into a line and cause absolute havoc and get people panic festing. That's it's role, and it does it exceptionally well. The Atlas cannot do that, timing is much more critical.

At range (so outside 297m module equipped ATLAS range) the KDK3 is king however.
You can kill or badly maim any brawler Atlas closing from 600m into 300m in a KDK3 before the Atlas is within the danger zone. Even a ranged Atlas is no match due to weapon mounts.

I mean there are other Atlas variants/load outs but none of them really work as well even with quirks (RS Gauss lol...).


So it depends on what you are doing and how you want to do it. I love bringing out my Atlas 7S, usually end up with a 500-600dmg game in QP anytime I bring it out with minimal effort. Just position correctly and strike when the time is right. The KDK3 you can have much more engaged game due to the range/poking abilts. That said the KDK3 doesn't always win because you can easily get a 7S into striking distance depending on many factors, same factors a 7S can be taken out easily.

[Gibson Ibanez]

I have both and I can tell you that it depends mostly on the pilot. The map can also make a difference, depending on ambient heat levels. In my opinion the hotter the map, the bigger the advantage to the Atlas. I could be wrong based on stats.

That being said, the KDK-1(S) has an alpha of 111. It will shutdown the mech on one Alpha, but if it hits dead on . . .

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=yrpmv_zOa0k

[Dee Eight]

The Kodiak makes up enough in the firepower range department to overcome the atlas's structure quirks. The Clan AC20s are 2 tons lighter, and their optimal range is 80 meters better. The SRM6s are 1.5 tons lighter each. You can start dealing AC damage sooner with the kodiak than the atlas, and for that matter, and if you leave off the MASC, you bring a nice couple clan ERLL's to the party as well on the thing and start hitting the atlas a lot further away than he's hitting you. You should always take advantage of range advantages with clan mechs.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

You are also neglecting the fact that IS AC20 is pinpoint front loaded damage and the SRMs are tighter than Clan versions.

Plus I hate to say it, if you put ER-LL's on a Spirit Bear then you are doing it wrong.

[justcallme A S H]

Yeah hence the SB in particular is the line breaker not the 'clan Atlas' as they do different roles even if the builds look similar.

There is no way I'd take of MASC on the SB to put something like ERLs, that speed advantage on top of the XL400 means you're an incredible strike machine with excellent heat efficiency.

People may think 55% on Smurfy for a SB is too good, but that's the same % my 7S has because in a brawl you wanna beat out as much damage in shortest space of time.

With the help of a cool shot I can alpha 6-7 times in rows. Racking up 400dmg+ in 60 sec of battle, that's the firepower a heat efficient brawler brings (and needs) to do crazy levels of destruction like a 100T brawler should and totally turn a battle around.

Edited by R31Nismoid, 15 June 2016 - 11:44 PM.

[Morggo]

The rest of our lance drives Kodiacs or Altlas... our Atlas pilots don't fear (sure they respect them though) Kodiacs any more. Our Kodiac pilots tend to avoid Atlas as they usually come out on the bad end of the stick with them (unless at range as others have pointed out)... and they totally wreck face in general in those bears in T2.

That with combined with my persona battlefield observations between the chassis... Atlas is where I would put my money most bets.

@ghost -totally agree.. my cicada's and lights love eating those bears steaks, all day, every day

Edited by Morggo, 16 June 2016 - 06:07 AM.

[Horse Pryde]

I have not played the Atlas personally but I will say I think from everything I've seen and watched the Kodiak would win. The Atlas would have to get up close and personal and outside of 300M the Kodiak has such a huge advantage that I would favor it.

That being said an all atlas drop vs an all Kodiak drop would be incredibly fun to watch. for that matter I'd like to see a tournament of classes per say where every mech on each team is the same.

[PhoenixFire55]

I think NGNG doesn't have much of a clue in the first place.

As for your actual question, it all depends on builds and conditions of the engagement (range, terrain, temperature etc.). Either way, the one with the better pilot inside will win every time.

[Karl the Plumber]

in an assault mech, you're at the mercy of your team. No pilot and no build can salvage a game where your Atlas or your Kodiak gets left behind or surrounded by an enemy lance.

Edited by Karl the Plumber, 17 June 2016 - 04:21 AM.

[Gibson Ibanez]

PhoenixFire55, on 17 June 2016 - 03:32 AM, said:

I think NGNG doesn't have much of a clue in the first place.

As for your actual question, it all depends on builds and conditions of the engagement (range, terrain, temperature etc.). Either way, the one with the better pilot inside will win every time.

NGNG???