12 replies to this topic

[Snowmanfree]

good nights mech warrior, anyone can help me? I want to buy a Dragon n1 and I want to learn how to brawl with it, any advice? I don´t know how to start. thanks

[Hammerfinn]

First off, I wouldn't brawl in a dragon. I would run a quick-strike skirmisher, but if you want to try, I might do something like this: DRG-1N

or maybe something like this: DRG-1N2

You're not really gonna want to toe-to-toe; sit on the edge of the battle, alpha a bit, then run somewhere else!

It might work.

[TercieI]

The DRG is one of the last few chassis I haven't mastered and I'm sitting on mine until the rescale next week. I'd suggest you not buy them until then either as rescaled mechs may get requirked and you might have a very different robot than the one you purchased. Today, though, I agree with Hammerfinn, it's not a brawling chassis (semi-exception is the Flame hero with AC/20 and MLs).

Edited by TercieI, 15 June 2016 - 08:08 PM.

[JC Daxion]

Dragons are really long range mechs.. they work best with large pulse, ERLL's, gauss, AC2-5..


that said, if you do wanna brawl, Maybe something like this.. The 2 heroes might not be bad either.. with the resize go perhaps they can be decent brawlers.. we will see.

This is sorta a fast, heavier armored medium build, would be like a HBK, or shadow hawk


http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a3fcb9d2e70df8c


Perhaps an STD engine ML+ac-10 flame?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e89f3ae52192a9c

MPL+ac-10 Fang? (though personally i run my fang with an AC-10+ dual LPL and an XL)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c51fa7939de5302

Edited by JC Daxion, 15 June 2016 - 08:43 PM.

[GenghisJr]

Go for the 1C with an XL300, AC10, PPC in Torso and 2 MPL. I know the 1N has the AC5 quirk but the 1C has an overall ballistic quirk of 15%(from memory) and builds are very limited with the 1N. I run this build on the Fang (even better) and run Gauss + 2LL on the 1C. Dragons have an extra module slot and you can fit Zoom, TIG & 3 weapon modules. The 1C has the best build flexibility but only one Ballistic hardpoint.
If you want really want to brawl, try the 1C with an AC10 and 4MPL or maybe 4ML + SRM6. The 1N has basically become "Hammer Time" and is fun when you are in the mood for point and destroy but as soon as the enemy see's you, you are a higher priority target than an isolated Direwolf.
When the quirks were first introduced i already had about 150,000 EXP on the 1N and all the modules you could dream of, first game trying the quirks on Crimson Straight in the tunnel and I successfully held off a DWF, Victor and a Cataphract and there were bits of them lying everywhere when they escaped through the side tunnel. Hammertime. I wont forget that first game

[TheLuc]

Hello Snowmanfree,
Like its been written, the Dragon is hardly a brawler, think of it as a medium Mech with more armor. The Dragon has that big center torso and quite thin side torsos, making it very XL friendly but still fragile even with a standard engine. As a quick skirmisher it works great, hit and runs tactics are quite fun since its a quick Mech.

Still want to brawl with a Dragon ? sure you can but don't expect stellar performance from it.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Snowmanfree, on 15 June 2016 - 06:39 PM, said:

good nights mech warrior, anyone can help me? I want to buy a Dragon n1 and I want to learn how to brawl with it, any advice? I don´t know how to start. thanks

Please don't.

Okay, now to try to be a little constructive/helpful. Not that the above comment is mean-spirited or something, but really, 'brawling' as it occurs in MWO is simply NOT what the DRG does.

First question: Define 'brawling', as you understand it. What weapons are used? What are the ideal traits for a brawling mech to have? How does one 'brawl'? I'd like to be sure that you understand the term the same way that WE do, in case we're misunderstanding the question at hand.

THAT said, here's some basics on what's generally agreed to be a good brawler in MWO. First, LOTS of missile hard points. There ARE energy brawlers out there (Gargoyle comes to mind, with eleventy-billion Small Pulse Lasers), but traditional brawling is centered around either A.) AC/20 or B.) lots of SRMs or C.) BOTH. For instance, the classic AS7-S brawler build uses 4 Artemis IV SRM-6s and one AC/20, each with enough ammo to fire at LEAST 25 times. Mix STD engine (325-350), arm armor, and maybe even Medium Lasers or Flamers, to your preference. Brawlers need weapons that get their damage out quickly (SRMs, ACs, and maybe pulse lasers) so that they can twist off return fire onto non-essential components, instead of constantly facing the target. They also need faster-firing weapons, so they're not spending several seconds in the brawl without firing and just soaking up damage. So something with good quirks for the weapon system in question, or else a variant of that weapon system with a shorter cooldown time. And brawlers need GOOD hitboxes, to be able to spread incoming damage well and not get any particular component focused-off.

The Dragon is really none of that. And that's why I ask what YOU think brawling is. Maybe you define it differently, and the Dragon may then be a reasonable choice for what you want to do. But anyhow, let's examine what makes the Dragon a poor choice for that role...

DRG-1N can't carry an AC/20. The IS AC/20 takes 10 critical slots. That Dragon has B weapon hard points ONLY in the RA, and with a lower arm actuator it can't carry anything bigger than NINE (9) slots. So the biggest thing it CAN carry is a LB-10X or AC/10 autocannon. Not BAD in a brawl, per se, but not ideal either. And the 20% generic ballistic cooldown quirk helps a LOT with that weapon. So, let's start there. Brawl with a LB-10X, which isn't ideal, but which CAN work at least late-match. Okay. That's a start. It also gets 15% cooldown reduction for missiles and energy weapons, and 10% range increase for energy weapons as well. Let's work with that. Add 2 SRM-4 missile launchers to the CT, because the -1N is a rare Dragon in that it has TWO CT missile hard points, and the SRM-4 (without Artemis) takes only 1 slot per launcher. If we go to EndoSteel structure, max the armor everywhere, then shave the LA down to 22 points, we can fit a ML in the LT and 2 tons of ammo for each the LB10-X and SRM-4s. And you get a whopping 32-ish points of damage. Also, you can run this loadout on a CN9-D. Better, in fact, for 10 fewer tons. Just sayin'... Anyhow, your Dragon looks a bit like THIS. IF you wanted to go to a lighter STD engine, you'd sacrifice too much in maneuverability. And if you go to an XL, well that's really no good for a heavy/assault brawler in the IS tech base anyhow. And it's not going to net you much in the way of options. The Dragon is really a little hardpoint-starved, if I'm being honest.

Now, you have hard points scattered across both side torsos AND an arm, on a relatively wide mech. Not ideal. Serviceable, but not ideal. You have your main ballistic (LB-10X) and main missiles (SRM-4s) all mounted low--not awful in a brawl, but any pre-brawl poking is going to be TOUGH. You're mobile, which is helpful. But you've got a CT the size of a whole doggone Hunchback (exaggeration to make a point, but yeah, it's BIG). It's a huge, well-known, KICK ME sign. And it WILL get kicked. A LOT. By far better brawlers. The LT E hard point, IIRC, is mounted up high. Not a must for a brawler, and might actually be non-ideal in that role, but good for other things...

Try THIS instead. Or something like it. Still runs >80 km/h after speed tweak. The twin AC/5s take advantage of mad quirks for ballistic cooldown and AC/5-specific cooldown. The LLs add significant damage at mid-range with no ammunition consumption. The whole thing allows you to poke at mid-range, and even bug someone at long range. If you stagger the AC/5s, and apply a cooldown module and Fast Fire skill, you can have them firing more than two rounds/second between the two, which is 11-ish DPS on its own. Alpha twice, then stick to the AC/5s while it cools back down a little. Put the LA laser on fire group one (LMB), AC/5s staggered on 2 (RMB), and the LT laser on another fire group. Poke with the right arm, alpha if you have the shot without having to trade, and keep that LA ready to deal with UAVs. 150 rounds for the AC/5s should be sufficient, and that's 750 points of damage potential right there without even considering the lasers. Biggest thing, BE COWARDLY. That CT is no joke, and it will get FRIED. The DRG-1N has some good structure/armor quirks, but that's just not enough to save it when it gets focused. So DON'T GET FOCUSED. How? By NOT GETTING NOTICED. Easier said that done, yeah. IMPOSSIBLE in a brawl, though.

If you're hung up on brawling, pick another mech. If you're hung up on the Dragon, pick another role. That's about all there is to it.

Edited by Sister RAbbi, 15 June 2016 - 10:24 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

As others have said at current the Dragon is not well suited for close quarters combat, what many people refer to as brawling, however it works fine as a harasser or for hit and fade fire support, it does not have the armor to stand still and trade shots at range (a bad idea with any Mech)

However a lot will change next week with the great rescale, we do not yet know what that will mean for the Mechs currently ingame when some are much smaller and some are a bit larger, we do not know how much the size of most Mechs is being altered, the Dragon will likely get a fair bit smaller.
I have taken before screenshots of every chassis I own ^{(I think out of about 70 chassis the only ones I am missing are Highlander, Highlander IIC, Executioner, Banshee, Quickdraw, Kintaro and Vindicator)} so I can do a comparison from front and side to see the diferance after the rescale.

[Metus regem]

As I posted in another thread, this is my DRG-1N, she is not a mech that wants to get stuck in. She is a cavalry mech, meant to be a mobile fire support unit. Fast enough to give lights something to worry about, something that makes a lot of mediums think twice about engaging. That said, the Dragon chassis is a punishing one to learn, well worth learning how to use them right, as it will teach you how to protect a weak spot, but still a punishing mech to learn.

[Koniving]

Snowmanfree, on 15 June 2016 - 06:39 PM, said:

good nights mech warrior, anyone can help me? I want to buy a Dragon n1 and I want to learn how to brawl with it, any advice? I don´t know how to start. thanks

Don't let them discourage you. Sure there's a rescale upcoming which will shrink the Dragon on the 17th (tomorrow), but there is no reason to hold off for it.

They make it sound like this.

When actually it'll be more like this.


Anyway.
The Dragon 1N isn't a favorite of mine, but it is pretty good.
Here's a really basic build idea.
And an alternative that hits harder.
And finally, if you are well-suited to taking the best advantage of the Dragon's vast arm-range by being free of the Armlock, this is entirely arm-focused so you might wanna try this.

Some dragon vids.
Demonstration of arm use (especially versus the Hunchback) using the trial Dragon.

Brawler rig.

More dragon brawling.

A hefty brawler -- this hadn't been possible for about a year and a half, but as the AC/2 ghost heat has been removed it is again possible and it's so damn much fun! Imagine it with quirks....

[Narcissistic Martyr]

First I'd like to say dear god don't do it. The dragon is way way too easy to kill for a brawler. Especially for a new player.

However... if you insist...

Something like 2LPL and 2ML on the 1C with a STD engine is really about the only non IRL$$$ option. but... it's kind of... completely terrible...

To be honest the dragon just doensn't lend itself to the brawler role very well. Withthe exception of the Flame of course but even that is god awful compared to the hunchie 4g.

[Koniving]

I'd like to add that a lot of people's fears ae based on the fact that the Dragon -- in addition to the somewhat oversized scale -- requires a set of advanced skills that players rarely if ever learn after 2014 due to a thing called "Armlock" which has spoiled a lot of players rotten. Without the crucial skill of being able to take control of your arms and manipulate them, the Dragon's greatest abilities are beyond the typical post-2014 player's skillset.

It works okay even with basic arm skills, but it works superbly with a full range of arm manipulation techniques (including around-the-corner missile shooting and arm shots while barely exposing yourself by getting the crosshair's horizontal bar about half its length past its edge at the corner of a building and you can fire past that building without exposing anything more than half of your right or left arm. (Yay corner shooting!)

So many tricks, so much to explore.

[Flak Kannon]

Hi Snowmanfree,

The Dragon is not best suited for brawling.

The Dragon 1N is best suited as a 300-500 meter skirmisher.

Speed and hit and run, and flank. That is its best role.


The 1N probably should not be built with anything other than 2 AC5's and 2 ML and 250-300 rounds of AC5 ammo.

A XL 325 or so will get you mid 90's KPH. Good enough. Heat not a huge issue so just go with the 10 DHS that come standard internally in any engine XL300 or above... don't add any extra DHS is what I'm saying.

Most important thing... arm protection. Your dual ac5 arm si the most important part of you. TORSO twist like a maniac or shield that arm at ALL times. Try not to loose that arm, do not stair down anything, hit things that arent looking then turn away. As you go up in Tier, pilots realize weaknesses, and making you loose your AC5 arm is your weakness,

Now...

If you really wanna Brawl in a Dragon N1, make sure its with a STD engine, and go SRM6, 1ML,1LPL, 2 Machine gun build..not my cup of tea and I'd out damage it 3 to 1 in the dual ac5 build, but do and build what you like...

Enjoi