44 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

It's not a terrible mech, but it needs a few fixes to make it on par with other heavy mechs, I think.

• Fix the hitboxes. Probably the worst hitboxes I've seen on any mech since the Black Knight and Hellbringer CT fiascos. The Rifleman's rear side torso hitboxes can be hit from basically any angle, it seems like. No matter if they're standing directly in front of you, they will core you from behind.
  
• Give more structure quirks plz. For whatever reason, the Rifleman hero mech (Legend Killer) is the only variant that got CT structure quirks. RFL-3C gets +7 structure in the side torsos and +10 in the arms, RFL-5D gets +10 in the arms and the RFL-3N gets no structure quirks at all.
  For sake of comparison, the Dragon and Quickdraw gets +14 structure in the side torsos for basically every variant.
  
• Laser duration quirks would be a lot more helpful for the RFL-5D than PPC quirks. If they intend people to use PPCs on the RFL-5D, then 10% heat reduction isn't enough for a mech that can only combine PPCs with lasers.

[Y E O N N E]

Fix the hi---wat? It has fantastic hit-boxes. It spreads damage better than a Jagermech, and I don't seem to get rear-cored unless I turn to allow it.

The only thing letting it down really is the fact that it's 60 tons and has 60 tonner armor and structure.

RFL-5D would be more awesome with heftier PPC heat quirks (which tells me PPCs are still too hot in general). Actually, it should have both that and 10% burn reduction for medium lasers.

[KodiakGW]

Yep, needs something...

Don't think hit boxes are the issue. Also, structure quirks on Dragon and QuickDraw are because their current size is much larger than they should be. I fully expect to see them decreased after the re-size on Tuesday. I'd be pleasantly surprised if they are not.

But as compared to quirks on the Warhammer and Marauder, both it and the Archer were lacking.

[DaZur]

Alistair Winter, on 17 June 2016 - 09:04 AM, said:

• Laser duration quirks would be a lot more helpful for the RFL-5D than PPC quirks. If they intend people to use PPCs on the RFL-5D, then 10% heat reduction isn't enough for a mech that can only combine PPCs with lasers.

Son, you mess with my PPC quirks and we're gonna have to step outside...

[Alistair Winter]

The hitboxes are definitely an issue. At first, I thought I was getting shot from behind by teammates. And it's not because I'm torso twisting so much that I'm exposing my back. I'm getting rear cored from the front. Unfortunately, I can't really test this in 1v1, because I don't have Premium time.

I'd bet ten bucks that there's a problem with the rear side torso hitboxes. I've had them cored from the front in probably 20 different matches by now, to the point where it can't possibly be a coincidence anymore.

[Mole]

Well I don't know what kind of problems you guys are having with your Riflemen but mine does just dandy with 6 MPL and 2 SPL. I really don't feel like there's anything wrong with it.

[Y E O N N E]

KodiakGW, on 17 June 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

Yep, needs something...

Don't think hit boxes are the issue. Also, structure quirks on Dragon and QuickDraw are because their current size is much larger than they should be. I fully expect to see them decreased after the re-size on Tuesday. I'd be pleasantly surprised if they are not.

But as compared to quirks on the Warhammer and Marauder, both it and the Archer were lacking.

Even the Marauder is lacking compared to the Warhammer. It can tank the damage, but it's not as good at dealing it.

I still maintain the best variant is the 5D on an XL 350 with MPL, LPL, and SRMs. That one is fine, excellent even within its range bracket. The others? Lackluster.

The Warhammer was just spot-on.

[Bishop Steiner]

Alistair Winter, on 17 June 2016 - 09:04 AM, said:

It's not a terrible mech, but it needs a few fixes to make it on par with other heavy mechs, I think.

• Fix the hitboxes. Probably the worst hitboxes I've seen on any mech since the Black Knight and Hellbringer CT fiascos. The Rifleman's rear side torso hitboxes can be hit from basically any angle, it seems like. No matter if they're standing directly in front of you, they will core you from behind.
  
• Give more structure quirks plz. For whatever reason, the Rifleman hero mech (Legend Killer) is the only variant that got CT structure quirks. RFL-3C gets +7 structure in the side torsos and +10 in the arms, RFL-5D gets +10 in the arms and the RFL-3N gets no structure quirks at all.
  
  For sake of comparison, the Dragon and Quickdraw gets +14 structure in the side torsos for basically every variant.
  
• Laser duration quirks would be a lot more helpful for the RFL-5D than PPC quirks. If they intend people to use PPCs on the RFL-5D, then 10% heat reduction isn't enough for a mech that can only combine PPCs with lasers.

Dude...Hitboxes are great and it's easy to spread dmg even on XL models.... aside from the LK which is largely immobile.

Thing is supposed to be fragile. It is that, but it's not because of hitboxes.

The RFL-5D is built around PPCs as it's main weapons. MetaQuirking chassis is one of the worst things in this game.

5D is a great mobile sniper, and the 3% is jsut all around good. But people seem to forget ...it's intentionally a glass cannon, and is still only a 60 tonner. It's a large Medium, not a true Heavy.

[AztecD]

Solid mech, some variants are better than others, but the chassis is solid

[Mole]

I must be the only one on the planet who actually feels like his Rifleman is actually kind of tanky. Maybe it just spreads damage well, but I feel like it can take some pretty decent punishment before I find my internals exposed.

[MechWarrior319348]

Tried the one that has 8 laser mounts?

Its a super blackjack with an std engine.

Top speed, max armor, 6 med pulse, 2 med lasers.

[Mole]

Charlie Kelly Bird Law, on 17 June 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

Tried the one that has 8 laser mounts?

Its a super blackjack with an std engine.

Top speed, max armor, 6 med pulse, 2 med lasers.

That one's my favorite. Except I went with 2 small pulse lasers instead of medium lasers to avoid ghost heat seeing as MPLs and MLs share ghost heat penalties.

[MechWarrior319348]

The tanky thing is a hit reg/hit box problem they have with all new mechs. Its just no one bothers to complain about that kind of thing anymore.

Jenner never did get its hit reg fixed....

Mole, on 17 June 2016 - 10:59 AM, said:

That one's my favorite. Except I went with 2 small pulse lasers instead of medium lasers to avoid ghost heat seeing as MPLs and MLs share ghost heat penalties.

I dont think they do. It doesn't show a warning in mechlab. Also ive tested it in testing grounds. 8 med lasers give more heat then 6 med and 2 med pulse.

[Alistair Winter]

I'll test it out when I find someone who wants to help me out with a 1v1 match to check the hitboxes.

I'm not complaining that the hitboxes are bad from the front. You can spread damage between CT and ST just fine most of the time. But sometimes you will inexplicably take damage from the REAR. That's the issue. But again, I'll test this out in a 1v1 match when I have time and provide evidence, if there is any.

[MechWarrior319348]

Tested it again, can confirm that med pulse and med lasers are not grouped in heatscale.

[Mole]

Charlie Kelly Bird Law, on 17 June 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

Tested it again, can confirm that med pulse and med lasers are not grouped in heatscale.

Really? I swear to God I read in the patch notes one time that "Inner Sphere Medium Pulse Lasers now share ghost heat penalties with Inner Sphere Medium Lasers". I swear to God the patch notes said that one time. But whatever, I'll be switching my small pulse lasers out for two medium lasers then. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Y E O N N E]

Mole, on 17 June 2016 - 12:03 PM, said:

Really? I swear to God I read in the patch notes one time that "Inner Sphere Medium Pulse Lasers now share ghost heat penalties with Inner Sphere Medium Lasers". I swear to God the patch notes said that one time. But whatever, I'll be switching my small pulse lasers out for two medium lasers then. Thanks for pointing that out.

I also swear to Hades that a patch notes said somewhere that higher level (5+) targeting computers would reduce LB-X spread, but I can't find it anywhere.

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 June 2016 - 10:33 AM, said:

Dude...Hitboxes are great and it's easy to spread dmg even on XL models.... aside from the LK which is largely immobile.

Thing is supposed to be fragile. It is that, but it's not because of hitboxes.

The RFL-5D is built around PPCs as it's main weapons. MetaQuirking chassis is one of the worst things in this game.

5D is a great mobile sniper, and the 3% is jsut all around good. But people seem to forget ...it's intentionally a glass cannon, and is still only a 60 tonner. It's a large Medium, not a true Heavy.

You know, the 5D ought to play a lot like the 3N, but with PPCs...but for some reason it just doesn't. Its not significantly less agile, it spreads just as well, but the damage out of the 3N is just higher, consistently.

Hmmm...

[Tarogato]

Just for you, my love, I haff mapped the mech that now troubles your dreams:

Tarogato, on 17 June 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

Riflemunz:






Observations: in general, really tight and logical hitboxes. Cockpit is larger than I expected. Antennae up top has super tight/accurate hitboxing - all counts as front CT except for the exactly rear-facing panels. The arms are a little blocky though - the mismatching between my drawn hitbox (yellow) and the actual arm of the model is intentional and reflects what I found. As usual, I haven't scrutinised the leg hitboxes below the waist. Rear side torsos, protruding as they are, are rather vulnerable. You could probably run zero rear CT armour on this mech and be fine. \o/

Edited by Tarogato, 17 June 2016 - 12:46 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 17 June 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

You know, the 5D ought to play a lot like the 3N, but with PPCs...but for some reason it just doesn't. Its not significantly less agile, it spreads just as well, but the damage out of the 3N is just higher, consistently.

Hmmm...

Moar agile, actually, isn't it? 70% accel/decel? But something about the RoF and Heat is different which is why I prefer my 2x AC10 3N.

Mole, on 17 June 2016 - 10:54 AM, said:

I must be the only one on the planet who actually feels like his Rifleman is actually kind of tanky. Maybe it just spreads damage well, but I feel like it can take some pretty decent punishment before I find my internals exposed.

Not at all. It's not TOUGH, per se, because if you stare of a moment, you will get gibbed. But if you twist constantly, it's easy to spread damage over all the torsos and the arms. I pretty much always lose at least one arm before dying.