17 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

I don't think I've seen a thread started, but whatever I guess.


I feel like it's going to be a disaster, in a sense.

Since the Command Wheel REQUIRES that you have targeted the mech AND you have to hold down a key to get the wheel operational... this is a cluster**** waiting to happen.

The only time this is effective is when your targets are easy to spot... aka.. in the wide open and/or stationary.

That is woefully inefficient.


You'd have to invest in UAVs.. and hope those don't get murdered immediately.


In the games were a Command Wheel makes sense, you'd have a quick "voice message system" (like Counterstrike and the like) where you hit a series of quick hotkeys of commands... memorizing a key sequence to announce commands to everyone.


For this game, what you would need is a remnant of the target after targeting the enemy(more info is available when the paperdoll loadout shows up). Then you issue a series of commands based on that.

"Target Mech A" is shown if you only briefly targeted a mech and yet lost the Doritos/signal, invoking a key sequence like v5 ("v" is the hotkey for the system, "5" is the command to target the mech).

"Target Mech A @ E3" is shown if you have the mech targeted, and have it locked, but have no paperdoll (v5 - same sequence is used to achieve this).

"Target Mech A - Timberwolf @ E3)" is shown if you have the mech targeted, and see the paperdoll loadout (uses the same sequence).


Things like this was actually implemented in MW3 and MW4, but was only designed for single player in mind. A better system for online play can be had adapting to how those two games used it, but also with modern advancement in the Command Wheel.


Unfortunately, we can't have nice things.


The currently proposed system is super clunky, and like the command map, will likely be barely usable in pub/FW play, and totally USELESS in comp play due to the design mechanics.

[Tyler Valentine]

112358132134

[Alistair Winter]

I don't know that it will be a disaster, but I was definitely hoping for something like CounterStrike.

Especially because MWO has the worst targeting system of basically any FPS game I can think of. Tie Fighter had a more advanced targeting system in, what, 1994? You often have to press the R button repeatedly to select the mech you want. There's no button to cycle enemy targets, select nearest enemy target, etc. If we had that kind of functionality, then this Command wheel idea would be much better.

Jury's still out, but... oh well. It's better than nothing. I never actually expected them to do the Command wheel (I gave up in 2014).

[Steel Claws]

We have voice coms - do we really need a command wheel? People don't follow voice commands let alone whats in the chat window. I think they are using a lot of coding time fixing issues that aren't broken rather tan adding something better to the game, things that only a few people care or complain about. Thy really need to quit wasting time tweeking crap and give us some more depth, different game modes, more maps, Solaris would be nice. Instead we keep rehashing the same stuff and most people really don't care about mech scaling, command wheels, and alpha strikes. Perhaps Russ has OCD. At some point you have to move forward and move on to things that matter more to the majority and disregard the vocal minority that keeps putting you into a vicious circle and preventing you from moving forward. Perhaps poll us if we want something changed instead of just assuming we all do.

[Hit the Deck]

I never used a command wheel in any game before so..., I have no idea how it would turn out. Based on scanning the patch note on its ability, I think my RVN-3L will use it the most.

[GRiPSViGiL]

A simple wheel like BF games woulda been great. How do they make something so easy so convoluted? Le sigh what the hell?

[DaZur]

GRiPSViGiL, on 17 June 2016 - 08:13 PM, said:

How do they make something so easy so convoluted? Le sigh what the hell?

Seriously... You needed to ask that question?

We don't agree on much but, "yeah"...

[Deathlike]

Steel Claws, on 17 June 2016 - 07:42 PM, said:

We have voice coms - do we really need a command wheel? People don't follow voice commands let alone whats in the chat window. I think they are using a lot of coding time fixing issues that aren't broken rather tan adding something better to the game, things that only a few people care or complain about. Thy really need to quit wasting time tweeking crap and give us some more depth, different game modes, more maps, Solaris would be nice. Instead we keep rehashing the same stuff and most people really don't care about mech scaling, command wheels, and alpha strikes. Perhaps Russ has OCD. At some point you have to move forward and move on to things that matter more to the majority and disregard the vocal minority that keeps putting you into a vicious circle and preventing you from moving forward. Perhaps poll us if we want something changed instead of just assuming we all do.

There's very little coordination that occurs in the solo queue (let alone the group queue at times). The best way to coordinate is through this system, but the current design is convoluted and terribad, so it's going to be a wasted effort.

This system is meant for those that prefer not to use VOIP, but also don't like typing out commands (it's vastly inefficient compared to VOIP of course) and want people to get on the same page quickly.

Unfortunately, I predict a cluster****.

[ScarecrowES]

I use comms constantly when playing with my unit, but largely don't when I'm pugging. Largely because pugs aren't terribly willing to listen anyway... but often there's a language barrier to get over.

Barking at someone in English when they don't know the language helps noone.

I'll definitely use the command wheel often when pugging, and I think it will be vital for units in FW for the ability to set priority targets alone.

Beyond that, being able to accurately relay information... not simply relay it, but to do so quickly, succinctly, and accurately... is very important, and the command wheel does that in a way that even VOIP doesn't. How many times do you hear "I need help over here," in a given night playing MWO, only to have no idea where "here" is? Simply being able to highlight a mech and have its location highlighted for every player is great. Being able to actually mark locations on the map where you see enemy movement, rather than having to guess grid coordinates is very helpful. I expect the accuracy of communication between players to go up exponentially with the command wheel.

Will everyone take advantage of this? Hell no. But just like with VOIP, the teams that use this tool will be at a great advantage over players who don't.

[Wintersdark]

ScarecrowES, on 17 June 2016 - 08:33 PM, said:

How many times do you hear "I need help over here," in a given night playing MWO, only to have no idea where "here" is? Simply being able to highlight a mech and have its location highlighted for every player is great. Being able to actually mark locations on the map where you see enemy movement, rather than having to guess grid coordinates is very helpful. I expect the accuracy of communication between players to go up exponentially with the command wheel.

"I need help over here"

"There's a Locust swarming me that I can't get off"

"... Thanks, ********, for not helping!"

..... Where the hell where you? Who were you? Easy to miss the text showing who's talking, and if I don't know where they are, how can I help?

I haven't used a command wheel before, not in a PvP game. I'm very interested though, as I usually can't talk but wish I could.

[ScarecrowES]

Wintersdark, on 17 June 2016 - 10:35 PM, said:

I haven't used a command wheel before, not in a PvP game. I'm very interested though, as I usually can't talk but wish I could.

This one is much more complex than what you'd normally see in a multiplayer game, but it's extremely detailed.

I think one thing the command wheel will allow you to do very easily that there's no real good way to do in chat or VOIP with any consistent accuracy is calling out the location of enemy mechs that you can see, but your team can't, and you can't target.

Seems like the command wheel only requires you be able to cursor over the mech to set a map beacon for its location. I can't count the number of times someone's said "enemy spotted and [such and such location]." And of course, I'm one grid square away from that location and... nope, no enemy. Because direction and distance are hard to judge for most people. The command wheel takes all that out of the equation. See an enemy mech, put your crosshair on it, pick the appropriate command on the wheel, marker placed at exact correct location. No comms needed.

[DarthHias]

Well, I´ll try it for herding Pugs. At least, Pugs like to move to dorritos, so maybe they will like to move towards dorritos saying: Bads here plz shoot kthx

[Tiantara]

- I have some ideas for more useful commands in command wheel. Instead of "affiliative", "sorry", "thanks" and so long, there need to be some other commands. Especially in FW mode.
- "All push" - command to all move inside base and fire in called targets.
- "All pull back" - step back, make enemy chase you. Shoot solo targets and cover your foes.
- "All Hold position" - command all to stop whatever they do. Not one lance or two - but all if they go as team.
- "Enemy UAV" - command to look at sky and shoot that thing off. New players often run under the rain or LRM without notice UAV.

Also as optional points:
- "Guard Assaults" - now, with mech weight on minimap, easy to know where yours assault mech is. So - easy to guard them by medium light mech.
- "LRM support" - calling support if need in right time. But... since all dont like LRM - maybe useless.

- "Enemy Spotted" - need to be separate 1 click button to fast message about enemy in line of sight. Not as wheel options.

[Tarogato]

I posted my thoughts here with high expectations that it would get ignored by PGI.

[Hit the Deck]

I think the voice needs reworking because it just sounds too.... cheerful.

[3xnihilo]

Tarogato, on 04 July 2016 - 10:25 AM, said:

I posted my thoughts here with high expectations that it would get ignored by PGI.

I like these. I also have a difficult time getting on VOIP (I play really early with sleeping kids in close proximity so no yelling) and was excited d for the new command wheel. But, it is very clunky and hard to use. Your suggestions would be a good improvement.

[Yellonet]

It need to have more choices as you say.
The most pressing problems I have with it now though is that in order to target an enemy your aim point needs to be on the enemy when you press the [Enemy] button. If the target is moving this is difficult as when you point at an enemy and press [E] you can't move the aim point, and if you are not very fast in activating the [Enemy] button the target will have moved away from the aim point and thus is not targeted.

This should be changed so that the mech that WAS under the aim point when you pressed [E] will be targeted when you press the [Enemy] button. BUT there needs to be a timeout of say 2 seconds after which it doesn't work (so that it can't be abused).

Also there seems to be some kind of cooldown as when I try to mark several targets in quick succession it just doesn't seem to work.

[627]

I think a wheel works good, you don't need hotkeys for all. Battlefield showed how that can work and that game was faster than MWO in a locust all the time.

But what BF2 made better was the "enemy spotted" function: It was in the middle so you don't had to fumble around in any direction. Basically if you just tapped the commo-rose button you triggered "enemy spotted" like a hotkey, only holding the button showed the whole wheel.
And then the function was better, you aimed and hit the button and it created a red blip on the minimap, even if there was no enemy at all. We need this more than everything else. In MWO you see a mech, want to spot it but you are out of range and what happens? - "Affirmative"

Yeah, that's what I wanted to say, thanks computer...

Edited by 627, 04 July 2016 - 10:58 AM.