48 replies to this topic

[cazidin]

Greetings Mechwarriors. With PGI having recently rescaled almost every mech in the game, and remodeled a few, like the Mad Dog and Black Knight, why didn't they give the Battlemaster his rifle from TT? The Phoenix Hawk has hers, sort of.

[Y E O N N E]

Pls no.

[Bishop Steiner]

cazidin, on 03 July 2016 - 07:13 AM, said:

Greetings Mechwarriors. With PGI having recently rescaled almost every mech in the game, and remodeled a few, like the Mad Dog and Black Knight, why didn't they give the Battlemaster his rifle from TT? The Phoenix Hawk has hers, sort of.

http://mwomercs.com/...bishop-steiner/

I support this.

Don't forget the Wolverine and Griffin, btw!

[Snowbluff]

Yeah, it would make the ballastics slot more viable by raising it up. So it gets a yay from me.

[MauttyKoray]

Not a fan of it really, bigger hitbox on an already large mech, plus it would've factored into the rescale (more volume) so it would make the mech's scale wrong.

[Bishop Steiner]

MauttyKoray, on 03 July 2016 - 07:45 AM, said:

Not a fan of it really, bigger hitbox on an already large mech, plus it would've factored into the rescale (more volume) so it would make the mech's scale wrong.

honestly the hitbox concern MIGHT matter at ubercomp level, but for most of us? No. and if anything, it's another shot NOT hitting the BLRs torso, so that should be a YAY since most of it's firepower is in the torsos for most builds, anyhow.

Scale? Valid concern though I am not entirely sure how much if any they actualyl factored weapons in being that for example the scale doesn't change on my HBK whether its got an MG or an AC20. I think the "dynamic" (what a joke, that) weapons are NOT factored into scale.

That would explain the GRF-2N and Phoenix Hawk, anyhow. Trying to factor something that variable is pretty tough.

[Y E O N N E]

I just don't want it because I think it looks stupid. Like the bubble cockpit.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 03 July 2016 - 08:28 AM, said:

I just don't want it because I think it looks stupid. Like the bubble cockpit.

And yet they are key tributes of what makes the mech what it is. Like a 7 slat grill on a Jeep. Not everything will please everyone.

But that is a more solid reason I reckon than worrying about the hitboxes (in this instance... mechs liek Mist Lynx, too much time devoted to Arms Day is a serious issue), tbh.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 03 July 2016 - 08:30 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 July 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

And yet they are key tributes of what makes the mech what it is. Like a 7 slat grill on a Jeep. Not everything will please everyone.

But that is a more solid reason I reckon than worrying about the hitboxes (in this instance... mechs liek Mist Lynx, too much time devoted to Arms Day is a serious issue), tbh.

I mean, if PGI makes a retro variant, I won't care. If they alter my current variants, I will sell them all.

[MauttyKoray]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 July 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

And yet they are key tributes of what makes the mech what it is. Like a 7 slat grill on a Jeep. Not everything will please everyone.

But that is a more solid reason I reckon than worrying about the hitboxes (in this instance... mechs liek Mist Lynx, too much time devoted to Arms Day is a serious issue), tbh.

For scale, I would like to assume they slapped on all the weapon geometry and then scaled (major things like missile tubes, HBK ballistic boxes, etc) and that the variants without them are scaled appropriately based on those variants.

My aesthetic concern with the battlemaster gun, is it will end up like the PHawk and become an ugly piece of regret. I mean, even the lasers placed vertically would have looked better than the double-wide we got.

Yeonne Greene, on 03 July 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

I mean, if PGI makes a retro variant, I won't care. If they alter my current variants, I will sell them all.

This actually, if they wanted to make a 'special' variant that had a bubble cockpit and gun, I think it would actually be better than a full remodel for the mech.

A hero variant even, I'd be entirely behind that, give it some sort of commander bonus (sensors, something) and I'd be even more behind that. Not saying I want P2W here, but I'm supportive of a special variant like that with unique geometry (like the Loyalty Atlas).

Or even make it like the Loyalty Atlas and use it as an event reward, even without any special bonuses outside of the 30% CB bonus that special mechs get.

Edit: The cockpit wouldn't cause texture issue because it would just cover it (and be cockpit glass mostly) as well as the non-color changing metal. As for the gun, that would be the only actual heavy work needed, plus there's the possibility it wouldn't get a unique cockpit for the bubble.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 03 July 2016 - 08:44 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

MauttyKoray, on 03 July 2016 - 08:42 AM, said:

For scale, I would like to assume they slapped on all the weapon geometry and then scaled (major things like missile tubes, HBK ballistic boxes, etc) and that the variants without them are scaled appropriately based on those variants.

My aesthetic concern with the battlemaster gun, is it will end up like the PHawk and become an ugly piece of regret. I mean, even the lasers placed vertically would have looked better than the double-wide we got.


This actually, if they wanted to make a 'special' variant that had a bubble cockpit and gun, I think it would actually be better than a full remodel for the mech.

A hero variant even, I'd be entirely behind that, give it some sort of commander bonus (sensors, something) and I'd be even more behind that. Not saying I want P2W here, but I'm supportive of a special variant like that with unique geometry (like the Loyalty Atlas).

Or even make it like the Loyalty Atlas and use it as an event reward, even without any special bonuses outside of the 30% CB bonus that special mechs get.

Edit: The cockpit wouldn't cause texture issue because it would just cover it (and be cockpit glass mostly) as well as the non-color changing metal. As for the gun, that would be the only actual heavy work needed, plus there's the possibility it wouldn't get a unique cockpit for the bubble.

except on the Battlemaster it's supposed ot be a SxS monster. Hence why it would work well.

[Tordin]

Nice bubbly Bioshock mech, does it work underwater? Harpoon gun ftw!

[cazidin]

Yeonne Greene, on 03 July 2016 - 07:15 AM, said:

Pls no.

Why not? I believe in Alex. I think he could make even the bubble cockpit look good!

Bishop Steiner, on 03 July 2016 - 07:41 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...bishop-steiner/

I support this.

Don't forget the Wolverine and Griffin, btw!

Thanks, Bishop. Good to know I have your support.

MauttyKoray, on 03 July 2016 - 07:45 AM, said:

Not a fan of it really, bigger hitbox on an already large mech, plus it would've factored into the rescale (more volume) so it would make the mech's scale wrong.

Ironically, by that logic, the Battlemaster would've been made a little smaller to compensate so it'd be a net zero sum change, right?

Tordin, on 03 July 2016 - 09:12 AM, said:

Nice bubbly Bioshock mech, does it work underwater? Harpoon gun ftw!

In theory, yes. To my knowledge you can pilot a mech underwater but combat becomes more complex.

[Y E O N N E]

cazidin, on 03 July 2016 - 09:30 AM, said:

Why not? I believe in Alex. I think he could make even the bubble cockpit look good!

It would just end up looking like a Hellbringer. That aside, it doesn't thematically fit with the rest of the IS stuff: rough and boxy. I'm actually a bit dismayed that all the new IS designs are as curvaceous as Clan 'Mechs.

[MauttyKoray]

Yeonne Greene, on 03 July 2016 - 09:38 AM, said:

It would just end up looking like a Hellbringer. That aside, it doesn't thematically fit with the rest of the IS stuff: rough and boxy. I'm actually a bit dismayed that all the new IS designs are as curvaceous as Clan 'Mechs.

Star League era designs, that's why.

Clans are the descendants of the SL and a lot of the mechs from IS that look sleeker (King Crab, Phoenix Hawk, etc) are connected with the Star League era which would explain their similarity.

Remember that the SL era was basically the height of technology for its time period and when they left the IS a great loss of technology and mech design knowledge was lost in the IS, meanwhile the SL (Clans) continued to develop their own.

Think of it like a branching diagram

Old IS -> SL Era -> Post SL IS -> Pre Invasion IS -> Post Invasion IS (reverse engineering clan tech)
................ l...................V...........................V
.................l..............(tech loss).. (tech preservation/minor advancements)
................V
..........SL Exodus -> Clans

Edited by MauttyKoray, 03 July 2016 - 09:58 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

MauttyKoray, on 03 July 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

Star League era designs, that's why.

Clans are the descendants of the SL and a lot of the mechs from IS that look sleeker (King Crab, Phoenix Hawk, etc) are connected with the Star League era which would explain their similarity.

Remember that the SL era was basically the height of technology for its time period and when they left the IS a great loss of technology and mech design knowledge was lost in the IS, meanwhile the SL (Clans) continued to develop their own.

Doesn't compute. Locust is a Star League era design. Battlemaster is Star League era. Blackjack is technically Star League.

None of these designs are curvy. And it's not even just the Marauder, which I could understand. The Enforcer, Archer, Cyclops, Grasshopper, etc. are all fare curvier than the 'Mechs PGI had put into the game through 2014.

[El Bandito]

Anything to distract my opponents from shooting at my Battlemaster's torsi, I support.

[MauttyKoray]

Yeonne Greene, on 03 July 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

Doesn't compute. Locust is a Star League era design. Battlemaster is Star League era. Blackjack is technically Star League.

None of these designs are curvy. And it's not even just the Marauder, which I could understand. The Enforcer, Archer, Cyclops, Grasshopper, etc. are all fare curvier than the 'Mechs PGI had put into the game through 2014.

I will preface this with the statement that the overall design and quality of the modeling in MWO has changed significantly since the pre-clan mechs.

The original Locust design is curvier, however there's legal issues with it and the one we have is based off a different mech (I forget what it was called), or was the reseen design or something.

As for the Battlemaster...the entire design was changed so I can't excuse that one. The bubble cockpit was a major aesthetic to its sleeker look, between that and the redesign it definitely doesn't look like a SL era design.

Enforcer follows other similar 'domed' style looking mechs from pre-SL era afaik.

Cyclops is actually pretty blocky with hard edges, and follows the old TT design pretty well imo.

Archer is also still blocky, though all of the 'reseen' mechs from those 4 seem to have been given a sleeker edged aesthetic and I believe that was to avoid legal issues (since PGI is nowhere near as equipped to handle a legal battle like that as the TT guys are) while keeping the designs similar enough to the originals to recognize.

No defense for the Grasshopper, its sort of a mixture...not really sure whats up with the rounded areas on it and I haven't taken a good look at it ingame but I believe the majority of the design in the concept was still blocky looking.

Lastly, and I wanted to address this one last cause I agree...the Blackjack? I really don't know... Its original design wasn't a brick like the MWO version, its possible just cause it was an early design in this game's life, as they all share a more hard edged design pre-clans.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 03 July 2016 - 10:40 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 July 2016 - 09:01 AM, said:

except on the Battlemaster it's supposed ot be a SxS monster. Hence why it would work well.

Well, at least the nonsensical Phoenix hawk's double pistol design would make sense for the Battlemaster. (ignoring the fact that it's a double-barreled SINGLE PPC and not 2 PPCs, but whatever)

Seriously... I don't bloody understand why PGI would go against the canonical description of the mech and downright refuse adding both of the medium lasers in either forearm.

PGI gonna PGI, i guess.

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 03 July 2016 - 10:39 AM.

[Moldur]

People have complained about the PHX having paper arms that always fall off. This is due in part to the fact that it has massive arms.

Pick your poison. It is my baseless conjecture that if people complain about not following original designs, then people will also complain about the problems from following the original design perhaps more so.