93 replies to this topic

[Navid A1]

Here is another interesting view:
Front torso surface to side torso surface ratio.
Can be used to get an idea about how much of your mech you can shield by torso twisting

[Afuldan McKronik]

Why does the Viper have more pixel count than the Cicada in literally everything? Is it an anomaly?

[Mcgral18]

Afuldan McKronik, on 18 June 2016 - 10:20 PM, said:

Why does the Viper have more pixel count than the Cicada in literally everything? Is it an anomaly?

Clam OP?

[Xetelian]

Navid A1, on 18 June 2016 - 06:45 PM, said:

Torso Comparison in terms of Volume and Front-side Visible surface:

Edited by Xetelian, 18 June 2016 - 11:26 PM.

[Hit the Deck]

Xetelian, on 18 June 2016 - 11:26 PM, said:

She asked for a liposuction but.... the doctor said that there's actually no more fat that can be removed. Thus she's forever sad....

[Navid A1]

Xetelian, on 18 June 2016 - 11:26 PM, said:

King Crab being like a giant plate might have something to do with it.
KGC has huge volume... but small front-side profile.

Edited by Navid A1, 18 June 2016 - 11:51 PM.

[STEF_]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 June 2016 - 04:27 PM, said:

Oh, I fully agree. I'm using absurdity to point out the flaw I the concept of scale add a balancing tool.

I'm speechless:

[Wintersdark]

Andi Nagasia, on 18 June 2016 - 04:44 PM, said:

re scale needed to be done,

many thought everything was ganna get smaller, well PGI decided to make things bigger instead,
Perhaps they felt to make Mechs smaller would make those Mechs Not scaled correctly to the world,
im fine with Bigger mechs, as long as they are scaled correctly to each other and the World,

its not the End of the World,

And despite the alarmist wailing (my favourite is how the Griffin was just ruined by its massive increase in size) in actual game play VERY few mechs where actually impacted in any noticeable way.

[Wintersdark]

Stefka Kerensky, on 19 June 2016 - 12:46 AM, said:

I'm speechless:

. Why? Turn them sideways. Look at how big the Catapults arms are - that's what eats the lion's share of volume.

Why is this so hard for people to grasp?

[STEF_]

Wintersdark, on 24 June 2016 - 12:45 AM, said:

. Why? Turn them sideways. Look at how big the Catapults arms are - that's what eats the lion's share of volume.

Why is this so hard for people to grasp?

FOR YOU it is so hard to grasp that Catapult have MORE armor/structure AND QUIRKS on those things, while PXH doesn't

[Wintersdark]

Stefka Kerensky, on 24 June 2016 - 12:49 AM, said:

FOR YOU it is so hard to grasp that Catapult have MORE armor/structure AND QUIRKS on those things, while PXH doesn't

What's your point?

Of course the catapult has more armor and structure, it's 65t and a fair bit larger than the PHX.

Quirks are screwed up. We know that, they're doing a rebalance pass on them next patch. Quirks, though, are about balance.

[STEF_]

Wintersdark, on 24 June 2016 - 01:17 AM, said:

What's your point?

Of course the catapult has more armor and structure, it's 65t and a fair bit larger than the PHX.

Quirks are screwed up. We know that, they're doing a rebalance pass on them next patch. Quirks, though, are about balance.

My point is esactly that one: they released volumetric patch WITHOUT any help for unlucky mechs....such as the PXH, for instance.

Let's see if it is true that pgi will give better quirks in the next patch (for panther, PXH, wolufhound, jenners (beside the oxide)..... I'm not so optimistic.

[Wintersdark]

Stefka Kerensky, on 24 June 2016 - 01:20 AM, said:

My point is esactly that one: they released volumetric patch WITHOUT any help for unlucky mechs....such as the PXH, for instance.

Let's see if it is true that pgi will give better quirks in the next patch (for panther, PXH, wolufhound, jenners (beside the oxide)..... I'm not so optimistic.

How could they possibly anticipate how much the rescaling would impact balance (hot tip: except for a very few cases: it basically did nothing) and compensate for that unknown with quirks? And the PHX? It was released with the rescale, so it COULDN'T have been affected by it.

So.

Why are you speechless? The PHX launched with normal launch quirks (which are often poor), it's suitably smaller than the catapult (unless you're living in some weird 2D parallel dimension)... So?

What the heck does this have to do with the catapult or the rescale at all?

[STEF_]

Wintersdark, on 24 June 2016 - 01:27 AM, said:

How could they possibly anticipate how much the rescaling would impact balance

lol.
Seriously?
With your "How could they possibly anticipate how much the rescaling would impact balance" I stop replying to you

Really "common sense" is unknown around here


to be clear, you are living in the 4° dimension, full of fairy fantasy, if you are saying PXH is perfect as it is.

Or a troll.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 24 June 2016 - 01:58 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Stefka Kerensky, on 24 June 2016 - 01:49 AM, said:

lol.
Seriously?
With your "How could they possibly anticipate how much the rescaling would impact balance" I stop replying to you

Really "common sense" is unknown around here

I'm sorry, I'll be clearer.

Yes, changing size will impact balance. Obviously. Getting bigger is bad, getting smaller is good.

But how much? Most mechs I'd say have no actual impact at all. Some do, sure - the Catapult, Nova, Locust - they all shrunk a lot, and obviously benefited. But it's impossible to know before the patch actually happened - even for those extreme outliers - how much of a difference it actually makes in game play.

How many games like this have you seen in game models change size? Who the heck has any experience with that? How do you translate that into raw quirk numbers?

Sure, any halfwit moron can say smaller=better. bigger=worse.... But how do you know how much you should adjust quirks in advance? Nobody has done this before. It's totally new ground for this kind of a game.

They did nerf the Nova quirks some, but they're giving it a month to settle and see exactly what the impacts are.

Quote

to be clear, you are living in the 4° dimension, full of fairy fantasy, if you are saying PXH is perfect as it is.

Or a troll.

That's some creative reading. Where did I say the PHX was fine?

Where did I even say it's OK? I said it's perks where poor.

But what the heck does that have to do with the catapult? This was all in response to YOUR post showing a catapult and a Phoenix Hawk, saying your speechless. The PHX was going to be mediocre from the get go, we all knew that. Poor hard points, poor tonnage range... Nobody expected it to be outstanding (or nobody should have) and a mech launching with mediocre quirks is hardly new and different.

Edited by Wintersdark, 24 June 2016 - 03:20 AM.

[STEF_]

Wintersdark, on 24 June 2016 - 03:18 AM, said:

That's some creative reading. Where did I say the PHX was fine?

Where did I even say it's OK? I said it's perks where poor.

But what the heck does that have to do with the catapult? This was all in response to YOUR post showing a catapult and a Phoenix Hawk, saying your speechless. The PHX was going to be mediocre from the get go, we all knew that. Poor hard points, poor tonnage range... Nobody expected it to be outstanding (or nobody should have) and a mech launching with mediocre quirks is hardly new and different.

About PXH, volume does have to do, because a bigger target is easier to hit.

It's a known fact that PXH, with actual gameplay, would have sucked, and that's the reason why PGi should have done it way smaller and with good quirks.
Look at the bj...I was expecting at least the same quirks and height...and the pxh still wouldn't have been good enough because of low hardpoints.

I cannot understand why pgi decided to screw up my fav iconic medium.
I'm very raging about that.

[Hit the Deck]

Stefka Kerensky, on 24 June 2016 - 03:34 AM, said:

...
I cannot understand why pgi decided to screw up my fav iconic medium.
I'm very raging about that.

"Decided to screw" might be too strong of words. Play HBS' BT and all of this shait about size/scaling and whatnot will not matter. They might have other problems not existing in MWO though (very limited customization comes to mind, might be a blessing or a curse).

Edited by Hit the Deck, 24 June 2016 - 03:48 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Stefka Kerensky, on 24 June 2016 - 03:34 AM, said:

About PXH, volume does have to do, because a bigger target is easier to hit.

It's a known fact that PXH, with actual gameplay, would have sucked, and that's the reason why PGi should have done it way smaller and with good quirks.
Look at the bj...I was expecting at least the same quirks and height...and the pxh still wouldn't have been good enough because of low hardpoints.

I cannot understand why pgi decided to screw up my fav iconic medium.
I'm very raging about that.

They can't make it smaller. They're making it the same size as every other 45 tonner. They're not scaling for balance, because that a huge slippery rabbit hole - after all, they can't balance with straight up quirks, you think they'll o it making mechs arbitrary sizes based on how Paul anticipates the mech will perform?

Should it have had better quirks? Yes. We all knew it'd be a poor performer before quirks, so it should have got better ones. But... Requirking in a month anyways, so may as well just wait. It's not the first poor mech to be released and it won't be the last.

I get the heartbreak, though, I dearly love them too.

[STEF_]

Wintersdark, on 24 June 2016 - 05:11 AM, said:

They can't make it smaller. They're making it the same size as every other 45 tonner. They're not scaling for balance, because that a huge slippery rabbit hole - after all, they can't balance with straight up quirks, you think they'll o it making mechs arbitrary sizes based on how Paul anticipates the mech will perform?

Should it have had better quirks? Yes. We all knew it'd be a poor performer before quirks, so it should have got better ones. But... Requirking in a month anyways, so may as well just wait. It's not the first poor mech to be released and it won't be the last.

I get the heartbreak, though, I dearly love them too.

The fact is that a looooooooooooooooooot of pilots predicted it was going to suck... I bought it anyway, becuase it's my fav unseen.
So, why cannot Paul have...the "common sense" to put the proper quirks, even without 1 month of datas?
As already said, at least the same of the BJ...even tough, being taller and with bigger arms, PXH would need far more structure quirks.

[Karl Streiger]

Stefka Kerensky, on 24 June 2016 - 05:35 AM, said:

The fact is that a looooooooooooooooooot of pilots predicted it was going to suck... I bought it anyway, becuase it's my fav unseen.
So, why cannot Paul have...the "common sense" to put the proper quirks, even without 1 month of datas?
As already said, at least the same of the BJ...even tough, being taller and with bigger arms, PXH would need far more structure quirks.

Because he has a list, with all the options on it.
In the next steps he is using the "forum" search function to collect all the ideas and discussions about the Mech to come
when ever a idea pops out he strikes it from the list
what remains is what the new mech will become
Yes I'm joking - at least I hope so

BTW; the editing software of the forums seems to be buggy as hell either

Edited by Karl Streiger, 24 June 2016 - 05:43 AM.