37 replies to this topic

[Speedy Plysitkos]

so you nerfed 4xUAC5 (ie 20 alpha) maulers (and all other ballistics M), while you let 4xUAC10 (ie 40 alpha) KDK3 variant untouched ingame ?

this $$$$ moneytalking hands politic stinks.
Ofc, you dont have time now for KDK balance, more important things, bla bla bla bla bla.
You will nerf them just 1 week after theyll become avail for MC.

Yes, you are practising this since TBR.........

[CK16]

Kdk-3 has no weapons quirks....and the quirks it has are pretty tiny compared to many....

[Speedy Plysitkos]

aha, and no quirks is excuse for leting the KDK3 OP. ye sure.

[xXBagheeraXx]

I really dont want Kodiaks nerfed. But we all know its coming and they will become extinct afterwards...but yeah the Mauler nerf upsets me quite a bit. THey where perfect the way they where, and now the get some of the most useless quirk setups ive ever seen.

[Davegt27]

the KDK-3 is OP?

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Davegt27, on 20 June 2016 - 07:40 AM, said:

the KDK-3 is OP?

People just aren't used to a clan assault that is a threat.

[xXBagheeraXx]

IT isn't. Its just good. We cannot have good things in this game are it gets called "OP"

Just like we cant have good IS ballistic mechs or they inevitably get nerfed under the table...

[Marmon Rzohr]

Titannium, on 20 June 2016 - 07:30 AM, said:

so you nerfed 4xUAC5 (ie 20 alpha) maulers (and all other ballistics M), while you let 4xUAC10 (ie 40 alpha) KDK3 variant untouched ingame ?

this $$$$ moneytalking hands politic stinks.
Ofc, you dont have time now for KDK balance, more important things, bla bla bla bla bla.
You will nerf them just 1 week after theyll become avail for MC.

Yes, you are practising this since TBR.........

Keep in mind that the Soon^TM to come heat system will probably nerf the 4xUAC10, due to the 30 alpha limit.

But I agree that nerfing the Mauler before the new heat system was weird. The MX90 (which was the best one) should still be good even after the nerf IMO.

xXBagheeraXx, on 20 June 2016 - 07:41 AM, said:

IT isn't. Its just good. We cannot have good things in this game are it gets called "OP"

Just like we cant have good IS ballistic mechs or they inevitably get nerfed under the table...

Let's be real. The KDK-3 is a bit better than "just good". Though that's more down to the combination of mech + weapon system rather than just the mech, so I expect PGI will hold off on nerfing it until they implement the new system (or at least they should, IMO).

Edited by Marmon Rzohr, 20 June 2016 - 07:47 AM.

[PyckenZot]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 20 June 2016 - 07:41 AM, said:

People just aren't used to a clan assault that is a threat.

threat -> viable

[Pariah Devalis]

Mauler with 4 UAC5 = 20 PPFLD, twice per second if you doubletap. 40 damage in two packets of 20 damage. 36 tons of guns. 600m range, fast projectile.

KDK-3 with Quad UAC10 = 13.333 PPFLD, in three "packets", and perhaps half a second salvo if you double tap. ~60 damage in about 4-5 packets of 13.333 damage. 40 tons of guns. 540m range, medium speed projectile.


I see nothing wrong here. Whatsoever. I'm actually still not sure why the Mauler even has any quirks to begin with. Fully front loaded ballistics are one of the IS advantages over Clans.

[Mole]

Yes yes, KDK-3 OP, etc. blah blah blah. Keep calm and whine on. Seriously. KDK-3 is not OP.

[Phra]

The fact every single WC team has 2 KDK3 in their lineup leads me to think they are the stronger side.

[Pariah Devalis]

Phra, on 20 June 2016 - 07:45 AM, said:

The fact every single WC team has 2 KDK3 in their lineup leads me to think they are the stronger side.

And yet... they are not running Dakka builds nearly as much as twin Gauss builds. So.... Hm....

[Triordinant]

Check the match end scores at the end of QuickPlay solo queue matches. 4 out of 5 times the 'mech with the highest Match Score and doing the most damage is a KDK-3. That's the queue where 'mech quality is most obvious since external factors like a well-oiled coordinated team are excluded.

[Pariah Devalis]

Triordinant, on 20 June 2016 - 07:50 AM, said:

Check the match end scores at the end of QuickPlay solo queue matches. 4 out of 5 times the 'mech with the highest Match Score and doing the most damage is a KDK-3. That's the queue where 'mech quality is most obvious since external factors like a well-oiled coordinated team are excluded.

50% of match score on the winning team is determined by raw damage. If you smear your damage across mechs and don't kill people efficiently, you artificially inflate your match score. Inefficient builds throw up huge damage numbers, while efficient ones kill targets as cleanly as possible, resulting in lower damage values.

So... no. EOM score values don't mean jack. All it shows is that someone managed to farm damage to a greater or lesser degree than their allies.

[Triordinant]

Pariah Devalis, on 20 June 2016 - 07:55 AM, said:

50% of match score on the winning team is determined by raw damage. All it shows is that someone managed to farm damage to a greater or lesser degree than their allies.

Exactly. And the KDK-3 does it better than any other 'mech.

[Mole]

I personally don't feel threatened when confronted with a quad UAC/10 Kodiak. At least not any more threatened than I do when being confronted by any other 'mech. In fact, I can pretty regularly waltz up to a quad UAC/10 Kodiak in my Atlas and smash his face in and he can't do jack about it. I suppose we should just nerf the Atlas too. How dare a 100 ton 'mech, the heaviest of the heavy, bring more raw firepower than lighter 'mechs? A travesty, I say!

[Pariah Devalis]

Triordinant, on 20 June 2016 - 07:58 AM, said:

Exactly. And the KDK-3 does it better than any other 'mech.

...and? That doesn't make it any more lethal. It's wasteful. You know what else racks huge damage numbers? LRM boats. Very few people agree that LRM boats are powerful or even good. Not saying the Dakkabear is bad, but equating large pub queue match scores with degrees of OP-ness is flawed logic.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

Mole: im comparing two assaults, while you assault x light.
There was a guy here who will make from your atlas a nice puppy within a second (retired).
Its good you can play nice with your atlas, but overall in general, KDK3 players have the most raw damage, which counts.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Kodiak 3 is OP. Not terribly, but it is. Until tuesday, the Mauler is too. As to KDKs, you don't need weapon quirks when you can high mount quad clan uac10s or gausses. But with that amount of firepower getting generous mobility quirks makes no sense. Among clan mechs, only the executioner got similar ones, but that poor thing deserves them for all it's shortcomings. Actually the Dire could get such ones too. KDK3 is already a killer when met face to face, there is no reason to make it harder to get a jump on it from the side. Giant CT is a bad thing, but only when you can actually aim at it, not when you're getting constant ongoing screen shake and particles covering your screen the moment your enemy peeks out, because he's got high mounts and quirked agility to get to you first unless you're too small of a mech to be in an immediate threat to it.

In competent group and decent T1 matches KDK may not stand out really much. In pug tiers 5, 4, 3, 2 it does. In 'bad MM 3+2+1' matches it does to. In low tier group matches it does as well. That's about 95% of the matches going on we're talking here.

For something to be OP, it doesn't need to be waaaaaaaaaay better than anything else. Just better.

EDIT:

Mole, on 20 June 2016 - 07:59 AM, said:

I personally don't feel threatened when confronted with a quad UAC/10 Kodiak. At least not any more threatened than I do when being confronted by any other 'mech. In fact, I can pretty regularly waltz up to a quad UAC/10 Kodiak in my Atlas and smash his face in and he can't do jack about it. I suppose we should just nerf the Atlas too. How dare a 100 ton 'mech, the heaviest of the heavy, bring more raw firepower than lighter 'mechs? A travesty, I say!

Completely irrelevant argument man. A guy has a mech about 50% faster than yours, with over twice the range you have and with higher hardpoints. If he failed to kill/avoid you before you reached your effective range (270 meters!) in a FATLAS, you deserve to be able to smash his face with ease. Do you claim a mech starts to be OP only once it get's Atlas firepower, but with better range and hardpoints?

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 20 June 2016 - 08:18 AM.