23 replies to this topic

[Rebas Kradd]

Darth Hotz, on 22 June 2016 - 01:13 PM, said:

Exactly! Add this:

Light sensors spot very early

Medium sensor spot early

Heavie sensor spot normal

Assault sensors spot late

Full damage only when target is spoted and locked by someone

Fair share of cbills and xp for spotting and locking

Lights would suddenly get the job they were build for and dont need to have damage pumping loadouts that make many assaults shiffer and the game would become way more tactical than it is right now.

I know that they tried something like this on the test servers some time ago and I dont understand why they did not try to get this simple concept working.

My 2 cents in response would be...that this is a popular idea that a lot of people have brought up, but it's only really going to be relevant on maps with low visibility (flat and dense terrain, atmospheric effects, heavy tree cover, etc.). Otherwise, you'll be back to spotting everything with your eyes and shooting at them regardless of what they're carrying.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 22 June 2016 - 01:21 PM.

[Deathlike]

Wintersdark, on 22 June 2016 - 11:30 AM, said:

Not bad, but I must disagree wholly on Mech Direction.

Let me propose three not at all uncommon situations.

1) You are in a Jenner IIC, on top of a building. You are bristling with SRM's you want to unload onto an unsuspecting Kodiak. You can't fire at him, it's too steep. You can't even see him well, as he's against the building. If you drop down in front of him, he'll tear your Jenner in half. Drop down behind, and you can kill/cripple him. Which way is he facing?

2) You're under the platform on Crimson Straight. The OpFor is clustered up above. You can pop a UAV up through a hole - which way do you go?if you can see which way they're facing, you can get some very effective pokes. If you can't, you're effectively trapped.

3) You're dancing around buildings - river city, frozen city, Crimson Straight, etc. Do you continue around the building, or reverse direction? If you can see what your opponent is doing, the choice is a lot easier.


Knowing mech direction is EXTREMELY valuable.

It's critical for setting up firing lines and firing lanes. A mech that isn't even at least perpendicular to the incoming push from the enemy is in no position to shoot at targets. Remember when we did have all the Doritos on the minimap, we could tell where the legs are aligned, but have no real insight to where the torsos are facing. It's good enough for checking for a NASCAR race, but it isn't the end all for seeing what's what.

Besides, any sort of "push" would predictably have the enemy Doritos facing your team, so it's not that useful or interesting.

[Darth Hotz]

Rebas Kradd, on 22 June 2016 - 01:16 PM, said:

My 2 cents in response would be...that this is a popular idea that a lot of people have brought up, but it's only really going to be relevant on maps with low visibility (flat and dense terrain, atmospheric effects, heavy tree cover, etc.). Otherwise, you'll be back to spotting everything with your eyes and shooting at them regardless of what they're carrying.

Dont we have dense terrain, atmospheric effects, heavy tree cover, night and day cycles and fog on most maps already? Also the penalty for shooting a non locked target needs to be severe.

[Rebas Kradd]

Darth Hotz, on 22 June 2016 - 01:32 PM, said:

Dont we have dense terrain, atmospheric effects, heavy tree cover, night and day cycles and fog on most maps already? Also the penalty for shooting a non locked target needs to be severe.

It's getting better. The newer maps are better at cluttering visibility (Bog, Collective, New River City, Highlands if you're smart), but heat vision can still see right through night and fog. See MW4 and MWLL for much better examples of tree cover and atmospheric usage, which created circumstances in which information warfare was REALLY needed.

invernomuto, on 22 June 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

IMHO a good IW implementation needs a radical redesign of the sensor / targeting mechanics.
With the current system:

• information about the enemy position and direction is shared immediately between team members as soon someone has LOS on an enemy and press "R". The enemy mech became "targettable", regardless of the distance, by anyone as soon the information is shared (immediate sharing of the information);
  
• After targeting the enemy mech, you can get enemy mech ID and damage information after a delay... Again, regardless of distance, you need only to have a lock.
  
• ECM / UAV / TAG / sensors module / etc essentially influence 1) or 2)

IMHO a good information warfare system need to redefine point 1) and 2) to be successfull:




1) information about the target is not shared immediately on all team members on the battlefield. Information is shared by each mech only within a certain radius. This radius depends on equipments and role assigned to certain mech variants (eg, scout, command, etc). Command mech and scout have better radius and could pass the information, e.g., to all friendly mech from 500 mt of their position, while a brawler could pass this information only 100 mts away. The info could be retrasmitted by each mech to all friendly mech in range. If you are away from this radius, you get none, you have to rely on voice or indications on the minimap (via command wheel)

2) type of information shared. Each mech has different sensors range and each mech has a different sensor signature (so, e.g., a light could be more difficult to "spot" by the sensor suite compared to a big assault mech). At a certain range you have only a "generic lock" with no other info. You can still fire missiles (but damage is very spread), but you do not have an ID or damage status for the enemy mech. When you get closer, you get ID, direction, damage status and better lock for missiles.
Obviously command mech or scout with special equipment could gather this information form a greater distance than a brawler.

My 2 cents.

There are some good ideas in here, but I fear that it would go back to promoting deathballing.