161 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

Alistair Winter, on 23 June 2016 - 01:00 AM, said:

The forum has an awful lot of people who think this game only got worse and worse for the last 4 years, who would rather amputate a limb than spend money on it, who feel lthe game isn't really worth playing at all... yet post here every day and typically respond within 10 minutes if someone quotes them on the forum.

What the hell are you guys doing? Go read some books, learn how to play the guitar, find new computer games. Life is short. If this is a sinking ship, isn't there something else you'd rather be doing?

Currently playing the Division, actually...

I did not even login in for my pre-ordered PXHs or the event before that...

[Gyrok]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 June 2016 - 09:03 AM, said:

This is all ******** though. You can't work around the current system. The current system actually takes into account the deliverance of the weapons. 3 PPCs/Dual Gauss good, 6 MPL bad? Are you kidding me? Alpha builds trade range for inefficient medium lasers to have a strong mid range alpha. 30 damage at 270m is not the same as 30 damage at 600 meters, but Ghost Heat 2.0 treats them the same. Most of the time in competitive play you focus on long range, or you do dakka or SRM brawling.

And for the love of god, NO ONE alphas over and over and over again. You get 2 alphas before having to cool down, and those mechs aren't even the go to mechs anymore... DPS builds that don't require alpha strikes are already making a comeback, this will make them dominant. Or, you will have people complaining about peak-a-boo triple PPC builds.

Why the hell would it remove 1-dimensional builds? It will just make dakka builds or PPFLD builds the preferred option. That it will encourage well rounded builds is completely a pipe dream, there is no evidence or logical reasoning to support that. It will only enforce builds that don't need large alpha strikes to kill you, like 4 AC5s on a Black Widow.

The people who want it are clearly not thinking everything through if they think that well-rounded mixed builds that don't sync well will make a come back. All it will do is reduce competitive options.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! There cannot be logical interpretation of the actual outcomes on these forums.

Hell, I have been telling people that asking for this would result in a completely different outcome than expected for a long time...they still are not listening.

Meh, either way...with GH2 looming, I have not bothered logging in for a few weeks now. I am simply disgusted with the direction that the game is taking...so I am not pre-ordering anything at this point, and not even bothering to play what I had pre-ordered (PXH).

[Agent 0 Fortune]

In my opinion this was the best patch they have released in a long time. And if things go this well with "power draw" and stock mech mode, I will have to start buying mechs again and rejoin the grind.
Of course i am one of apparent rare birds that prefers to play a lot of different chassis, and values balance rather than an i win button.

[Scout Derek]

GRiPSViGiL, on 23 June 2016 - 04:25 PM, said:

You do realize that the expectations people have came from what PGI said would be in the frikin game right? You and people who make this assertion that we have conjured up some unrealistic expectations is a joke. Then you guys will rationalize that they gave us 3 of the 4 pillars when in reality they area shells of what they should be. The only pillar completed is the mech combat but claiming any beyond that is asinine.

Of course, but this is to the fact that this patch was disappointing, as per OP. It's also to the fact that he thinks PGI is being stingy with their maps, which they're not. they told us they wanted to redo some maps because they were getting outdated. And I did say within reason, which you misread, again, within reason.

All I said was this opinion was fed by expectations they didn't meet. That's not a bad thing to say, Maybe blunt, but it's still a neutral stance, save for the hyperbole he had at the end about them selling maps to us.

[Johnny Z]

Gyrok, on 23 June 2016 - 05:35 PM, said:

Currently playing the Division, actually...

I did not even login in for my pre-ordered PXHs or the event before that...

I am sorry I don't believe you. I played the division for about an hour and a half on free trial. Then logged out and uninstalled. I find it hard to believe anyone can play that game for long. Maybe some day far into the future it will be good. Maybe.

White Bear 84, on 23 June 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

Truth is that once people settle into something, change becomes foreign and players do not like being made to change - EVEN if the change is theoretically for the best overall.

I for one welcome 2.0 with open arms, especially if we find that brawls require more 'smart' engagements, chain-fire and rely less on just unloading everything at once in easy-mode alpha strike. It will bring more meaning to the fact that MWO is supposed to be, and I qoute "the thinking man's shooter" (nb: PGI should really change that to gamer/player or something, were not in the 60's here guys).

So yes, players will be annoyed that their alpha strikes will be limited, but if PGI do this right (and they should be PTS'ing it) then we could see a new golden era with higher TTK and no ghost heat (1.0)... ...I especially find the prospect of power draw affecting boaty mechs more than sub-standard mechs exciting as this may give potential for mechs like the treb, vindy etc to have more of a chance against the meta.. ..my 5c

This would be ideal. The super high alphas have been a problem for a long while. The biggest problem maybe.

Funny thing, when Coolshot was added everyone went nuts from what I hear and it only made the problem worse. Now the idea of super high alphas being limited there is a few unhappy. Strange that either way it goes the complaining is quite a bit.

Edited by Johnny Z, 23 June 2016 - 06:09 PM.

[Deathlike]

Aresye, on 23 June 2016 - 05:24 PM, said:

The community more often than not has no idea what it really wants. That's why things like the player council failed spectacularly, and likely one of the reasons why PGI has more recently decided to go for a, "Make the change first, see how it goes on the live servers...yolo," type approach.

I think you can dissect segments of the community into subsets. There are a bunch of groups... that don't just include competitive... but also like the those too hung on lore (people still pining for stock values and/or 12v10), addicted to mechpron, and those that have played previous MW incarnations (there's surely more, but there are some obvious and distinct subgroups). A lot of these tend to clash heavily with each other.

The actual problem is that PGI has no real direction. The direction PGI takes is kinda like a politician... it's whatever will get your vote... or specifically a "donation". That's the actual problem. It's not limited to balance... but includes design decisions, things that get left unchanged nearly indefinitely.

I bet if you questioned Russ with truth serum (not that it'll ever happen), you'll get a lot of "I dunno" answers. You have to have a long term plan and vision for things, and what I've seen is a lot of short term changes in the attempts to see if you'll give them more money. I'm not saying you can't aim for getting more money - but if any of this was done right the first time... it would never be a discussion.


I'm not saying we'd all be in the same boat for some things.. but if you were to question whether PGI had a direction, you're more likely to get blocked by Russ on Twitter than getting anything... and it's simply because there is no direction.


Edit:
As an aside - do you remember any of the feedback threads for the PTS.. whether it was for UI 2.0 or that "laserlock" BS. Whenever PGI has asked for feedback, I have felt as if they didn't know what they were looking for... the questions weren't very pointed/directed, so inevitably you'll get so many varied and non-useful questions.

For instance, if you to be asked, "what is wrong with the game?", everyone will have their own answer. It's too open ended to get useful feedback.

If one were to ask "what is wrong with the gamemodes", you might get some different answers, some specific to a particular mode. While useful, it doesn't give a necessarily useful base to work with sometimes.

If one were to ask "what is wrong with Domination?", you are likely to get a lot of specific feedback (useless/pointless secondary objectives, location of circle is suboptimal - unfavorable for certain spawns/locations, etc.).

PGI usually asks questions of the first type, and occasionally of the second type... and generally does little to act on it (because, I wasted my time explaining my answers when UI 2.0 feedback was concerned).

So, I dunno what to tell you, but you'd have to have a direction or idea before you can make good decisions (it's like drop commanding, but you don't have to watch Lurm Atlases do their thing). It's just not there when it comes to PGI.

Edited by Deathlike, 23 June 2016 - 07:18 PM.

[Dawnstealer]

adamts01, on 23 June 2016 - 12:32 AM, said:

Who's still spending money on this game?

Me - totally bought the Cyclops. And if they release the Assassin or Hatchetman? Buying that too. Other than that? Not sure. Not many other mech packs I "need."

[RussianWolf]

People are so pleased with this patch.... let's take a look.


Quick Links
Updated Map - Expanded Frozen City. Not new content, barely improved (I like the old two) but we'll give them the thumbs up here.
Phoenix Hawk - Another Mech... not new content except in the broadest terms.
Catapult 'Butterbee' Hero - Another variant for an existing mech.... not new content.
'Mech Re-Scale - Adjusting sizes of various mechs... should have been done as they were introduced and not new content.
Quirk Adjustments - more quirkenings..... not new content.
Command Wheel - Something that should ahve happened ages ago. new content, but very small impact.
New Mini Map and BattleGrid - replaced soemthing working with something that didn't... scramble to fix what they had improved. arguably not better than the original. Not new content.
Quick Play Leaderboards New content???? maybe, but very limited in scope.
New Cockpit Items vanity items..... not new content.
New Badges and Titles vanity items.... not new content
The rest is basically debugging.

This is what you guys find as a good patch? Your expectations are lower than mine.

]We need more content to run these new mechs in. More maps, more modes.Solaris VII, 8v8 mode, stock mode, anything.... pick something new and different to give us

Edited by RussianWolf, 23 June 2016 - 07:45 PM.

[adamts01]

Dawnstealer, on 23 June 2016 - 07:25 PM, said:

Me - totally bought the Cyclops. And if they release the Assassin or Hatchetman? Buying that too. Other than that? Not sure. Not many other mech packs I "need."

I've spent more on this game than any other. I'd like to spend much, much more on it but to me there's just nothing new. It's rare that a mech is released with a completely unique feel to it. And even then, you just get in line to do the same old same old, match after match after match. New maps like Frozen definitely help, but it'll take a complete overhaul of CW to get me spending again, and from what I hear this is the last major update we're getting.

[Conreg]

We're all soldiers now.

[MadcatX]

Everyone who's been either an active player or not but kept tabs on the game since the beta days have had ample time to know what to expect from PGI and set their expectations accordingly if they chose to do so and people have to varying degrees and act based on them.

I think the thing I see the most common is the "They're not getting any more of my money!" or some variation of a financial cut as a reaction to expectations not being met, which is perfectly justifiable.

For the people who've been around for a while and always complain on the forums, the one place where you'll have other people agree with you but has rarely brought about change in the game, well you've got 3 major groups from my observations, although some can be in multiple groups:

1) The players passionate to the brand: They want a good MW:O game. They love the BT franchise and want to see it used to it's full potential, which it currently is not, and that frustrates them. I may not be as passionate towards a multiplayer-only btech game but having that passion for other brands, I can relate.

2) The players who spent, and continued to spend, a lot of money on the game despite not liking how PGI is handling it. I don't want to generalize since this does not apply to all but if you spent money on a promise or what you consider a minimally viable product and are angry about something despite knowing PGI's track record, you have to at least take some personal responsibility. Just like any kickstarter or pre-ordered game, people gave money on a risk rather then give money on a finished product. And they have to own up to that but doing so can be difficult for some since it would require people to admit that they were wrong, that they spent their money unwisely. In general people do not like to admit they are wrong so they direct the blame to something else, the devs usually being prime candidates.

3) The people who complain solely for the sake of complaining. Really don't need to elaborate further on that.

My observations as a ForumWarrior.

[Aresye]

RussianWolf, on 23 June 2016 - 07:43 PM, said:

This is what you guys find as a good patch? Your expectations are lower than mine.

Considering they accomplished everything they said they were going to do in June's roadmap, yes, I do consider this a good patch.

My expectations are based on what PGI says they're going to do. I'd say my expectations are right where they need to be.

Edited by Aresye, 23 June 2016 - 10:27 PM.

[Weeny Machine]

Alistair Winter, on 23 June 2016 - 01:00 AM, said:

The forum has an awful lot of people who think this game only got worse and worse for the last 4 years, who would rather amputate a limb than spend money on it, who feel lthe game isn't really worth playing at all... yet post here every day and typically respond within 10 minutes if someone quotes them on the forum.

What the hell are you guys doing? Go read some books, learn how to play the guitar, find new computer games. Life is short. If this is a sinking ship, isn't there something else you'd rather be doing?

You forgot the other category:
People who are in general willing to spend money on things they enjoy and dropped already substantial amounts of money into the game. Yet, years later there have been no real changes like diverse game modes, let alone a good campaign which gets you hooked for a long time (please, do not bring up CW. Just no).ö

These people won't spend money anymore because there isn't a real game changer - just new mech packs.

[Lily from animove]

Gyrok, on 23 June 2016 - 05:35 PM, said:

Currently playing the Division, actually...

I did not even login in for my pre-ordered PXHs or the event before that...

good luck in this grief and hackfest

[PhoenixFire55]

BigBenn, on 23 June 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

The blatant immaturity rearing its ugly head in this thread is saddening. Also, the lack of knowledge and understanding of what it takes to implement changes to a game like MWO, maintain balance, improve features, and keep enough binkies handy for the crybabies if far greater than ANY of you anti-PGI bandwagoners can fathom.

But of course you know it all from the hights of your maturity and superior understanding.

Some people who post here are actually professional programmers, others work in game industry, so yeah I'd imagine they know something about how things happen. Apart from that you don't need to be a genius to tell that if any half-decent company had people responsible for public relations acting like PGI stuff does, they'd be out of business in no time. The only reason why PGI is still afloat is because they have no competition whatsoever.

[Reza Malin]

Cementi, on 23 June 2016 - 12:36 AM, said:

My theory is that they have plans for game modes that simply will not work on the older smaller maps. Hence why they are getting facelifts.

Completely this, i have no doubt. Some larger scale game modes are coming in time, i will eat my mouse mat if they don't.

Sick of people whining about maps, wanting Call of Duty style mosh pits instead. If you want that, go play Call of Duty. Its quite simple.

I like to brawl, i still brawl on all kinds of maps, the truth is brawling is situational. Frozen City Old, is not a brawler map, its just a really bad map where the game is today, from what it was when the older maps were first made.

I just wish more people could see that.

[PhoenixFire55]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 June 2016 - 09:03 AM, said:

This is all ******** though. You can't work around the current system. The current system actually takes into account the deliverance of the weapons. 3 PPCs/Dual Gauss good, 6 MPL bad? Are you kidding me? Alpha builds trade range for inefficient medium lasers to have a strong mid range alpha. 30 damage at 270m is not the same as 30 damage at 600 meters, but Ghost Heat 2.0 treats them the same. Most of the time in competitive play you focus on long range, or you do dakka or SRM brawling.

And for the love of god, NO ONE alphas over and over and over again. You get 2 alphas before having to cool down, and those mechs aren't even the go to mechs anymore... DPS builds that don't require alpha strikes are already making a comeback, this will make them dominant. Or, you will have people complaining about peak-a-boo triple PPC builds.

Why the hell would it remove 1-dimensional builds? It will just make dakka builds or PPFLD builds the preferred option. That it will encourage well rounded builds is completely a pipe dream, there is no evidence or logical reasoning to support that. It will only enforce builds that don't need large alpha strikes to kill you, like 4 AC5s on a Black Widow.

The people who want it are clearly not thinking everything through if they think that well-rounded mixed builds that don't sync well will make a come back. All it will do is reduce competitive options.

To understand all that you actually have to play the game with at least half a clue. 99% of people crying about alpha strikes are doing so because they've heard somewhere from someone that alpha strikes are bad and now repeat it like mantra (much like it happens with global warming, swine flu, NorthKorea world domination and alike). I find it hilarious how a guy in this game comes over the mountain in his medium mech, stands there for a few seconds in front of 5 enemy mechs, dies then rages in chat how "those f***ing meta alpha strike abusers" killed him. And yet PGI would listen to the "majority".

I remember when we used to have perfect pinpoint alphas of 45 dmg at 800+ meters range with Gauss/ERPPCs, or 60 dmg pinpoint on Stalkers. Even then it was soooo easy to take an SRM Centurion and wipe the floor with those alpha overheat machines, and yet everyone just complained and done peek-a-boo against them playing on their hand instead of properly adapting and countering those one trick ponies. Compared to those time ... meh, pseudo pinpoint laservomit with effective range of 350m is what people are afraid of now? Pathetic really ...

I wonder what'll baddies cry about next after ghost heat 2.0 happens. At this rate we'll end up with nothing but small lasers and machine guns, coz even flamers will be OP, and we'll one be able to fire one MG and one SL at a time ...

[iLLcapitan]

The other thing I noticed during #mapgate was the total collapse of any sane discussion - here or ingame.
So many players I thought reasonable just totally lost their freaking mind.
Really disappointed here.

While I agree that there was the usual lack of communication (plus PGI beeing unable to see the ramifications of their actions),
how are they supposed to make profund changes to the game? It will include breaking existing stuff, inevitable.
But if half of the playersbase reacting like a mother who just got bereft of her child, I see why they are so reluctant to make big leaps.

Sidenote: after playing half a day with the new map I started to appreciate the better overview and the slight nerf to seismic.
I bet I wasn't alone with this, but I doubt many will speak out after going full berserk on the forums.

Edited by iLLcapitan, 24 June 2016 - 01:18 AM.

[adamts01]

Aresye, on 23 June 2016 - 10:27 PM, said:

Considering they accomplished everything they said they were going to do in June's roadmap, yes, I do consider this a good patch.

My expectations are based on what PGI says they're going to do. I'd say my expectations are right where they need to be.

Mini-map aside, this last patch nailed it. They have been getting better. You can tell by their tone they're trying to backpedal after insulting us so many times. But in general, I have to say PGI absolutely fails at delivering what they say.

Fade Akira, on 24 June 2016 - 12:57 AM, said:

Completely this, i have no doubt. Some larger scale game modes are coming in time, i will eat my mouse mat if they don't.

Honestly, what do you think is coming? In PGI's mind CW is the grand finale, and it's not getting another overhaul. After all the ideas that were thrown around, the best PGI could do was domination, which made sure the fight happened at the central feature, same as it always has. How can you still have faith in this game turning in to something bigger and better?

[RussianWolf]

Aresye, on 23 June 2016 - 10:27 PM, said:

Considering they accomplished everything they said they were going to do in June's roadmap, yes, I do consider this a good patch.

My expectations are based on what PGI says they're going to do. I'd say my expectations are right where they need to be.

So as long as they tell you that they will deliver no new content... you are happy. Got it.

In this case they should never mention anything of consequence int he Roadmap. That way they will never be expected to deliver.