24 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

I was under the impression that there is small amount of atmosphere in the HPG map.

[WarHippy]

El Bandito, on 22 June 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

I was under the impression that there is small amount of atmosphere in the HPG map.

Yeah, it is supposed to have a very thin atmosphere. That is also why the sound effects are muffled rather than non-existent.

[Burke IV]

Artificially generated magnetosphere

[Hit the Deck]

The upcoming Night Gyr with its Laser DHS (if it's implemented) should be the only 'Mech which can cool down with any appreciable speed on this map.

WarHippy, on 22 June 2016 - 10:38 AM, said:

Yeah, it is supposed to have a very thin atmosphere. That is also why the sound effects are muffled rather than non-existent.

You can't hear any sound by going to 3PV suggesting that there's no atmosphere (or very little of it).

[pbiggz]

behold, TSA extremity in living legends, a near atmosphereless astroid with a super fast day night cycle where the day roasts you and the night freezes you.

oh, and did i mention low gravity?

[WarHippy]

Hit the Deck, on 22 June 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

The upcoming Night Gyr with its Laser DHS (if it's implemented) should be the only 'Mech which can cool down with any appreciable speed on this map.


You can't hear any sound by going to 3PV suggesting that there's no atmosphere (or very little of it).

I will have to test it out again since I don't use 3rd person very often, but I seem to recall sound even in 3rd person. Either way the map is supposed to have a thin atmosphere.

[Chuck Jager]

cooling could be internally controlled with atmosphere being a secondary modifier.

Really who cares it is already imagination time.

[Alistair Winter]

As a sci-fi enthusiast who has watched Star Wars, I consider myself an expert on this topic, so let me educate you.

Generally, if a planet has similar gravity as Earth (which is common for all MWO maps), then they have enough gravity to have an atmosphere. Whether or not a planet has an atmosphere depends on a number of factor, but you need to have enough gravity to keep gas close to the planet, otherwise it will just bleed off into space.

Now, the temperature and radiation doesn't just depend on the atmosphere. It also depends on how far away from the closest star the planet is. And, naturally, what kind of star it is. Some stars produce a lot more heat and radiation than others. On top of that, you have to consider the planet's magnetic fields, which protect from radiation, if they exist.

[MadcatX]

A wizard does it. Perhaps a Unicorn Wizard at that!

[Alistair Winter]

pbiggz, on 22 June 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

behold, TSA extremity in living legends, a near atmosphereless astroid with a super fast day night cycle where the day roasts you and the night freezes you.
oh, and did i mention low gravity?

Impossible to do with modern technology. Just like destructible terrain.

[dervishx5]

Did anyone ever play the asteroid map in MWLL? Very frustrating to play on but highly creative.

Had low gravity, and rapidly shifting temperatures.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Another atmospheric thing to keep in mind...

A planet or similar large body generating a magnetic field is very important to retaining an atmosphere as well. The magnetic field of a planet (like Earth's) deflects solar winds and solar radiation away (and around) our planet. Without a proper magnetic field, solar winds would strip away a planet's atmosphere.

If a planetoid like HPG manifold generated a magnetic field (an active molten core plus rotation), it would have an important additional aid in protecting what little atmosphere it had.

http://m.esa.int/Our...ital_protection

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 22 June 2016 - 11:15 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Alistair Winter, on 22 June 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

As a sci-fi enthusiast who has watched Star Wars, I consider myself an expert on this topic, so let me educate you.

Generally, if a planet has similar gravity as Earth (which is common for all MWO maps), then they have enough gravity to have an atmosphere. Whether or not a planet has an atmosphere depends on a number of factor, but you need to have enough gravity to keep gas close to the planet, otherwise it will just bleed off into space.

Now, the temperature and radiation doesn't just depend on the atmosphere. It also depends on how far away from the closest star the planet is. And, naturally, what kind of star it is. Some stars produce a lot more heat and radiation than others. On top of that, you have to consider the planet's magnetic fields, which protect from radiation, if they exist.

Also color of the planet, reflection is a huge thing when it come to sunlight, radiation, etc.

ITs not just the atmosphere and magnetosphere, the color of the soil, how reflective the surface is also has to do with it.

Reflection, Insolation and Scattering are the three ways its dealt with on Earth i think. Earth and Space Science Class was a long time ago...lol.

Edited by Revis Volek, 22 June 2016 - 11:16 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

Overall, i think we need more... Extreme environmental effects. Hot maps should be hotter, cold maps colder, some maps with higher gravity, others with lower (could affect jump-distance and fall-damage), there's just so many ways it could be made more interesting.
I also remember this level in mass effect 2 (i think), it basically had the Sun going FUBAR, so while you were in direct sunlight it'd be damaging your shields, so you had to fight in the shade, so maybe making a map where in direct sunlight your mech would start cooking pretty hard, while the shades were cool, would be pretty awesome (probably not really scientifically accurate, but since when is Battletech scientifically accurate?!)

[Snowbluff]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 22 June 2016 - 10:33 AM, said:

Okay so HPG manifold is on a moon right? A moon that wouldn't have an atmosphere clearly. That means that it is exposed to the vacuum of space, and space's temperature is near absolute zero, except when the sun faces you. When the sun faces you it would heat up immeasurably.

So... Why do are mechs either: A) remain cool throughout, or burn to a crisp from solar radiation and heat?

Mech are given different coolants based on their environments. Some of these set ups allow mechs to keep cool in environments hotter than their internals. They might havea coolant flush system designed to work efficiently for that environment.

Edited by Snowbluff, 22 June 2016 - 12:06 PM.

[SP3CTREnyc]

It would be more realistic if the mech didn't cool down at all. Objects in space can't dissipate their heat because there is no medium through which that heat to transfer. This is why the ISS has massive radiators and non-liquified inhabitants.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Hit the Deck, on 22 June 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

You can't hear any sound by going to 3PV suggesting that there's no atmosphere (or very little of it).

Sounds heard on HPG from cockpit view are vibrations resonating through the mech chassis. Recoil and such.

[Revis Volek]

More then likely they use what Astronauts use or something similar, They turn the outside layer of the cooling system into literally a sheet of ice and use it to cool the system.

Space applications[color=#555555][[/color]edit[color=#555555]][/color]
[color=#252525]
Astronauts commonly wear a Liquid Cooling and Ventilation Garment in order to maintain a comfortable core body temperature during extra-vehicular activity (EVA). The LCVG accomplishes this task by circulating cool water through a network of flexible tubes in direct contact with the astronaut's skin. The water draws heat away from the body, resulting in a lower core temperature. The water then returns to the Primary Life Support System (PLSS), where it is cooled in a heat exchanger before being recirculated.[/color]
[color=#252525]
In an independent space suit, the heat is ultimately transferred to a thin sheet of ice (formed by a separate feed water source). Due to the extremely low pressure in space, the heated ice sublimates directly to water vapor, which is then vented away from the suit.[/color]
[color=#252525]
The ice sublimator consists of sintered nickel plates with microscopic pores which are sized to permit the water to freeze in the plate without damaging it. So when heat needs to be removed, the ice in the pores melts and the water passes through them to form a thin sheet which sublimates (like dry ice). When there is no heat needing to be removed, this water refreezes sealing the plate. The rate of sublimation of the ice is directly proportional to the amount of heat needing to be removed, so the system is self regulating needing no moving parts. During EVA on the Moon it had outlet gas temperature of 44 F.,^[1] As an example, during the Apollo 12 commander's first EVA (of 3 hrs, 44 minutes), 4.75 lb of feedwater were sublimated, and this dissipated 894.4 Btu / hr.^[2] The pores eventually get clogged through contamination and the plates need to be replaced.,^[3][/color]
[color=#252525]
In a dependent space suit (such as the ones used in the Gemini program or within lunar orbit on the Apollo program), the heat is carried back to a host spacecraft through an umbilical connection, where it is ultimately radiated or sublimated via the spacecraft's own thermal control system.[/color]
[color=#252525]
Because the space environment is essentially a vacuum, heat cannot be lost through heat convection, and can only be directly dissipated through thermal radiation, a much slower process. Thus, even though the environment of space can be extremely cold, excessive heat build-up is inevitable. Without an LCVG, there would be no means by which to expel this heat, and it would affect not only EVA performance, but the health of the suit occupant as well. The LCVG used with theApollo/Skylab A7L suit could remove heat at a rate of approximately 586 watts.^[4][/color]
[color=#252525]
The LCVG used with NASA's Extravehicular Mobility Unit is primarily constructed of spandex, with a nylon tricot liner.^[5] The tubes are made of polyvinyl chloride.[/color]


wow, real hard to read. But if you can make it through that you will see what i mean. They essentially make DRY ICE and use it as a way to sublimate heat away. Its evaporation which is a cooling effect and cools the astronauts skin. I imagine a similar system could be used to cool a mechs fluid and even cool the pilot himself via air blown into the cockpit over those Dry Ice plates.

Edited by Revis Volek, 22 June 2016 - 12:43 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Yeah, black body radiation, alone, is not as efficient as BBR combined with convection. The HPG manifold should not really offer such good cooling rates... A cold map with little to no cold air will not really aid the rate of heat dissipation from the external surface of the heatsink, since BBR is not affected by ambient temperature. Only the mechanical efficiency of the HS would be improved, and then only for the first little bits of heat until the HS warms up to what we call "normal" ambient temperature. .

[MoonUnitBeta]

WarHippy, on 22 June 2016 - 10:38 AM, said:

Yeah, it is supposed to have a very thin atmosphere. That is also why the sound effects are muffled rather than non-existent.

There's sound because your mech carries the good vibrations through it and then echoes within the cockpit... Vacuum or no vacuum.

I don't think I remember any sounds that aren't the ones from impacts on your mech (or footsteps), or your own weapons being fired.


Neat little facts:

http://www.ehow.com/...ound-waves.html

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 22 June 2016 - 01:04 PM.