59 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

Juodas Varnas, on 23 June 2016 - 11:42 PM, said:

There are too many quirks in general.

What we need, is actual PROPER balancing and not just slapping quirks on everything.

mechs differ way to much for a general quirkign, lore geometry, lore hardpoints these alone are huge differecnes and therefore needs balancing more on the chassis to reach any balance.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Malachy Karrde, on 24 June 2016 - 04:10 AM, said:

Those that complain about the dire wolf want to boat. The dire wolf is not designed to boat.

Ummmm, wat.

Alistair Winter, on 24 June 2016 - 04:14 AM, said:

Just nerf the most OP assault mechs and stop the power creep. Before you ask about the DW structure quirks, let's discuss the KDK structure quirks. Before we talk about DW acceleration quirks, let's discuss the KDK acceleration quirks.

You could take away the KDK-3's quirks and it would still be better than the Whale.

[Tarogato]

In my opinion, NO.

The DWF is one of the strongest assaults in the game. It would still be the strongest if it weren't for the Mauler being well quirked and the KDK-3 being power-creep city. Not to mention the BNC and BLR getting too much in the quirk department as well. Remember whenever nothing in the game had quirks and the DWF was the strongest? Why would you then buff the DWF? The problem isn't the DWF, the problem is the powercreep that surpassed it.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 June 2016 - 06:37 AM, said:

Mobility quirks are nice, but they won't save the Whale, sorry.

The problem is still its firepower doesn't have the reach it used to, and the Clan DHS change from the rebalance hindered how often you can fire (heat gen quirks and ERML range plox). Next on my list would be some torso structure quirks because it is meant to be a turret for the most part, like the Mauler.


It wont, having less firepower means you shouldn't take the Whale to begin with, you would need some super quirks to make those lesser pods worth even bothering with on the Whale.

The Dire Wolf can run a 6 UAC5 build and have more DPS than a quad UAC10 Kodiak. I never found the whole gigaspike loadout to be that great due to its excessive heat, the medium laser range nerf, gauss nerf, and double heatsink nerf put the nail in that coffin, buried it, then covered it in cement.

DW still beats a KDK in pure DPS, but the Kodiak has higher mounts and much better speed and maneuverability not to mention a slight structure boost too on most variants.

A Mauler, can shield arm well, but a Dire Wolf with its tiny arms, 60 degree torso twist, and slow twist and turn speed leaves it unable to making it less tanky. Mobility quirks give the Dire Wolf better tanking ability and somewhat better aiming ability, especially against lighter mechs many pilots complain about. If Dire Wolves could get a bit more damage they take spread to their arms they might end up pretty powerful, considering there are 204 points of structure+armor in/on them.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Dakota1000, on 24 June 2016 - 06:57 AM, said:

The Dire Wolf can run a 6 UAC5 build and have more DPS than a quad UAC10 Kodiak.

Except the speed difference is what makes the Kodiak solid, not maneuverability. Being able to keep up with enemy movements and reposition within a decent time is what makes the Dakka Kodiak work better than the Dakka Whale for most engagements.

Dakota1000, on 24 June 2016 - 06:57 AM, said:

I never found the whole gigaspike loadout to be that great due to its excessive heat, the medium laser range nerf, gauss nerf, and double heatsink nerf put the nail in that coffin, buried it, then covered it in cement.

That's my point, that was the strongest build of the Whale got overnerfed.

Dakota1000, on 24 June 2016 - 06:57 AM, said:

A Mauler, can shield arm well, but a Dire Wolf with its tiny arms, 60 degree torso twist, and slow twist and turn speed leaves it unable to making it less tanky.
Mobility quirks give the Dire Wolf better tanking ability and somewhat better aiming ability, especially against lighter mechs many pilots complain about. If Dire Wolves could get a bit more damage they take spread to their arms they might end up pretty powerful, considering there are 204 points of structure+armor in/on them.

The Mauler shields with its arms because the arms simply cover more of the torso than the Whale's do. Turn/twist speed on the typical Mauler build is not much better than the Whale's. (5 AC5 or 3 AC5/2 UAC5 is the typical build).

The Whale isn't that bad at spreading damage either, and maneuverability is not going to allow it to spread damage to the arms, let's dispel that right now (the arms hang too low). It's certainly better at spreading damage than the Kodiak, the problem isn't tracking lights either, it's the fact the firepower it has isn't threatening enough anymore, it's as simple as that.

[Lostdragon]

I have a lot of matches in DWFs. I think the best quirk for it would be a bit of yaw and twist speed. That would probably help it as much or more than structure.

[Khobai]

it should get structure buffs just so its not strictly inferior to the kodiak

Quote

The Dire Wolf can run a 6 UAC5 build and have more DPS than a quad UAC10 Kodiak

6uac5 does roughly the same dps as 4uac10 and the kodiak can run quad uac10s and still go 65kph

the direwolf needs structure buffs so its not just way worse than the kodiak

the kodiak can take both endo and ferro making it effectively a 107 ton mech. so the direwolf needs structure buffs that make up that 7 ton difference.

Edited by Khobai, 24 June 2016 - 08:21 AM.

[Oberost]

Khobai, on 24 June 2016 - 08:17 AM, said:

the kodiak can take both endo and ferro making it effectively a 107 ton mech. so the direwolf needs structure buffs that make up that 7 ton difference.

Doing that the Kodiak has 14 less slots to use, so it's a trade off.

Maybe just slight tweaks to twist range and speed, but that's all.

Edited by Oberost, 24 June 2016 - 10:46 AM.

[Big Tin Man]

The only thing the DWF needs is a bit more torso twist. It's a little too vulnerable to lights.

I say this as a light pilot and a DWF enthusiast. In a light I have no fear of them beyond turning the wrong corner and accidentally facing one head on, as they cannot touch me within a 240* arc. In a locust, you can easily stay within this arc and never face the point end of the stick. Every other assault has a much smaller vulnerable spot. As a DWF pilot, the firepower is still unmatched, even by Kodiaks.

DWF's caught by themselves are the most vulnerable mech on the field. Good light pilots know this.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Big Tin Man, on 24 June 2016 - 09:54 AM, said:

As a DWF pilot, the firepower is still unmatched, even by Kodiaks.

Kodiaks can match all the relevant firepower of a Dire Wolf. Both the ERPPC/Gauss and Dakka Whales were replaced by the Kodiak. The Dakka Whale has more sustained firepower than the Dakka Kodiak, but that doesn't make up for the difference in speed sadly.

[SOL Ranger]

It was pretty much fine before Kodiak was launched, what changed? Oh...

[Peter2k]

Just feels sluggish

DWF needs a small boost to make it just a tad more mobile, just a bit
Like going up a hill or a ramp should be doable, not fast, but at least be achievable
Well in my opinion

Agree on torso twist range
Would give it a bit of twist speed as well


Personally I seem to out dps other DWF and kodiaks in my 2 U-AC5 2 U-AC10 build
Quad U-AC 10 and 6 U-AC5 just trigger too much heat for my taste
Actually won many one on ones because my target shut down and I could keep on pumping out damage

Wonder what I could do on a kodiaks with that build
Also range of uac 5's is nice to have

[Andi Nagasia]

Big Tin Man, on 24 June 2016 - 09:54 AM, said:

The only thing the DWF needs is a bit more torso twist. It's a little too vulnerable to lights.

I say this as a light pilot and a DWF enthusiast. In a light I have no fear of them beyond turning the wrong corner and accidentally facing one head on, as they cannot touch me within a 240* arc. In a locust, you can easily stay within this arc and never face the point end of the stick. Every other assault has a much smaller vulnerable spot. As a DWF pilot, the firepower is still unmatched, even by Kodiaks.

DWF's caught by themselves are the most vulnerable mech on the field. Good light pilots know this.

id rather not Change the Turn Angle as other Mechs have 60 and thats ok,
the Problem is its slow, but i wouldnt Ask for a 5%SpeedBuff as it wouldnt help and the Forums would blow up,
i think it really needs Structure, its slow and often left behind to Die, its not often that a team will wait for a DWF,

the Kodiak can Easly Pull DWF Numbers and Stay with the team to Share armor,
a DWF slows the Team down, and your forced to set Traps instead of being Agressive,
then a team is forced to play only Defence they often lose if they cant move to Counter,
at this time DWFs are left behind if they werent already,

dont get me wrong a DWF can be amazing once in the Properposition,
but its getting to that Position and then having the enemy fall into your Trap that matters most,
most other Assaults can Put in Larger Engines and Move Attack Pushing the Enemy Back,
a DWF can only set traps Commit and wait, choose wrong and you dont Aid the Team,
(Pro Tip- how to Beat a DWF, see it Flank it, shoot out its Everything, its hard to miss)

also to those saying a Kodiak with Endo has less Slots?
well it does, but only 1 Slot, you see a Kodiaks Endo gives it 5Tons for 7Slots,
but a DWF has 3 locked DHS thats 6Slots, so a Kodiak only loses 3DHS & 1Slot going endo,
O and the Kodiak can always take a larger Engine and put the DHS there to Balance that out,
a DWF will always only Ever go 48.6kph, and not make it to the Front lines fast Enough to matter,

Please Think of what a DWF can Bring to a Team to Help them Win?
Now think of how many Counters the DWF has and what the Team will lose taking one?
Now Ask your self, is their Any Other Assault that can do what im intending with the DWF?
then go take that Assault,

[Lostdragon]

SOL Ranger, on 24 June 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

It was pretty much fine before Kodiak was launched, what changed? Oh...

The global agility nerfs to the skill tree hurt the DWF a lot before the KDK came along. Even before that it was never nimble but the nerfs make it feel incredibly sluggish. The KDK, with its impressive speed and agility, just served to highlight the problems with the DWF.

[xXBagheeraXx]

CK16, on 24 June 2016 - 05:17 AM, said:

Sure, but they should give those quirks on less used omni pods. Same for others, the lesser used pods should get the better quirks. Usually this would mean trading some firepower then for more stats, imo it would balance things out a bit.

That was actually the case before, and why most of my direwhales used the Direwolf prime side toros. I never used torso ballistics or really missiles that much and the Direwolf Prime ones had nice torso twist speed and angle quirks. The most often used DWB side torso's had nothing.

[N0ni]

If it were to receive structure buffs i'd say no more than 10 per ST and 8 for CT. But as someone mentioned (too lazy to scroll and quote it) mobility quirks are much more needed on this beast.

Maybe... +5-10% accel/decel? As a start and go from there. Still going to be a turret regardless what twist speed you give it.

[STEF_]

Quirks are the devil incarnate, and should be used only for unlucky mechs.

Dire has been top tier, king of assault meta.

Still it's not an unlucky mech.....
BUT those pilots who ask to buff it are unlucky and need to get gud: you want to buff a mech with monster firepower because you are not getting results??? Really?

[Andi Nagasia]

Stefka Kerensky, on 25 June 2016 - 09:37 PM, said:

Quirks are the devil incarnate, and should be used only for unlucky mechs.

Dire has been top tier, king of assault meta.

Still it's not an unlucky mech.....
BUT those pilots who ask to buff it are unlucky and need to get gud: you want to buff a mech with monster firepower because you are not getting results??? Really?

I think Quirks have their Place, to give Certian mechs Viability over others,
to give some Variants more Viability over others, and help with in Chassis Balance,
just look at the LCT-1V, hard points Starved Mechs can Still be Viable with Quirks,

if you Still think the DWF is at the Top of the List, the Best Assault they perhaps you should play it more,
Right now, their are Many Assaults that can do what the DWF can but Better, KDK, MAL, KGC, the list goes on,
does the DWF have lots of HardPoints? Yes, but ask your self, can it use all its Hardpoints Effectively?
Make a DWF Build, then Think to yourself,..... would this Build be Better on another Assault?

im an amazing Nova Pilot, but me Being good in a Mech, doesnt mean that Mech doesnt Suck,
if the Majority of People look to a Mech and say, Eh, ill just take (XYZ) instead, that means that mech isnt Good,
for the Majority of people the Nova was SubPar, now thats its Correctly Scaled its much better,
and Many More People can Enjoy it More, as Mechs should be, Enjoyable by Everyone,

the Nova got Smaller in the rescale, this Helped me alot, making my Great Nova Piloting, Amazing,
but just because i can pull Great numbers out of it, doesnt mean others can and it doesnt need a Buff,
if the DWF doesnt need a Buff, the Majority of Players will speak up, that it doesnt and i will Agree,
but if the Majority Agree, some Buff is necessary than it does need a Buff, and i will Agree,
(Get Gud) is a Cop out Response that doesnt Add to the Conversation)

like the NVA, the DWF has Amazing amounts of Hardpoints but is Slow,
and Those that didnt want the Nova Buffed used to say, but it can take 14E, so its ok,
Having Lots of Hardpoints doesnt mean that you can Fill them Effectively,
how many 15E DWF do you see Around?



for the Sake of Argument Post a DWF build that cant be Replicated better faster on another Mech?
Edit- Spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 25 June 2016 - 10:33 PM.

[Navid A1]

After the skill-tree nerf, the dire is mostly useless (unless the enemy is stupid enough to just park in front of your guns)

A kodiak is superior in every possible way.

I'd say, either structure quirks, or agility quirks or some extra toro twist speed and angle.

[Andi Nagasia]

Navid A1, on 25 June 2016 - 10:33 PM, said:

After the skill-tree nerf, the dire is mostly useless (unless the enemy is stupid enough to just park in front of your guns)

A kodiak is superior in every possible way.

I'd say, either structure quirks, or agility quirks or some extra toro twist speed and angle.

i would say Structure and Twist Speed, the Angle and Slow Speed are almost like Mech Hallmarks,
id rather it Pilot like a Battleship Slow and Cumbersome but have the Armor of said Battleship,
than have it another Over Mobile Assault, that can Turn on a Dime,
(odd id love for a Buff just not Mobility, i may be abit Weird?)