11 replies to this topic

[Fnord Asteroid]

Looking for information on the interaction between Guardian Electronic Countermeasure and Beagle Active Probe when used in conjuction.

I have this on one of my mechs, but it seems not to work the way I think it should.

The forum search is not working for me, so I figured to ask here, as it seems a good question.

Edited by ChromeDaedalus, 25 June 2016 - 03:23 PM.

[Jables McBarty]

Sounds like you have both equipped.

When you have both, you get only the sensor boost from BAP. In order to counter an ECM, you need to turn your ECM into Counter Mode.

Intuitively you would think you can counter two ECMs, but unfortunately only one, and only when you are in Counter mode.

Does that answer your qeustion?

[Not A Real RAbbi]

JABLES! You beat me to it, ol' chum!

OP: Putting both on a mech is pretty much a waste of 1-1.5 tons, and 1-2 critical slots. IF you're going to carry ECM, then forego the BAP. If your'e going to carry the BAP, then forego the ECM.

There are a few benefits offered by BAP that cannot be had through ECM. Namely, BAP (and the Clan AP as well) decreases the target info gathering time, and it increases the sensor range.

BUT, for gathering target info (the paper doll you see in the top-right corner when you target an enemy by pressing 'R', which you had BETTER always do) there is a module that does the same thing, weighs nothing, and takes up no critical space in your mech. Why use BAP for that, then, when you could squeeze in an extra heat sink and half-ton of ammo, or something?

And the increased sensor range? Too easy. The Advanced Sensor Range module does the same thing. They BOTH give a 25% boost to sensor range. Not that you honestly need it in MWO 99% of the time. You already have a range of 800m with your sensors, and that's more than adequate for all but the most hardcore long-range snipers (NO, you do NOT engage with LRMs at that range or beyond).

So yeah, if you CAN mount ECM then ditch the BAP and carry one of those modules if you miss the other buffs offered by BAP.

One thing I'm not 100% clear on, and maybe someone else can clear this up, is the difference in counter-ECM range between ECM and BAP. Are they the same? Does BAP have a longer range for counter-ECM (as I suspect to be the case since the ECM nerf, and possibly even before it)?

[Rogue Jedi]

if you have both Active Probe and ECM, the Active Probes Counter ECM effect it removed

it still gives faster target info
longer sensor range
allows you to detect nearby shut down Mechs, and nearby UAVs.

if you are equipong Active Probe just to counter ECM it is not worth taking both, but if you are after the other effects go for it, it is a lot less expensive than the TIG and ASR modules

[Jables McBarty]

Sister RAbbi, on 25 June 2016 - 08:38 PM, said:

JABLES! You beat me to it, ol' chum!

XD

Quote

One thing I'm not 100% clear on, and maybe someone else can clear this up, is the difference in counter-ECM range between ECM and BAP. Are they the same? Does BAP have a longer range for counter-ECM (as I suspect to be the case since the ECM nerf, and possibly even before it)?

In my experience, yes, Active Probe has a longer range. I've noticed this as both the AP carrier and the ECM carrier, and I think I tested it out while training friends in private lobbies.

My assumption is that it's the same range for detecting shut-down 'mechs, which according to Smurfy's is 120m for BAP and 150m for cAP.

[Fnord Asteroid]

Thanks Rouge Jedi, Jabels. The original thought when installing BAP and ECM together was to get the expanded sensor range AND ecm cancelling effect of the bap in addition to the other goodies. A full sensor array...

So then, essentially, BAP turns off its ECCM, when in conjunction with the Guardian system. Correct?

Sister Rabbi, (IS)BAP cancels out to 240m, and ECM bubble is at 90m

(edited cuz im a bit slow today)
-.o

Edited by ChromeDaedalus, 27 June 2016 - 06:26 AM.

[TercieI]

ChromeDaedalus, on 27 June 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:

Thanks Rouge Jedi, Jabels. The original thought when installing BAP and ECM together was to get the expanded sensor range AND ecm cancelling effect of the bap in addition to the other goodies. A full sensor array...

So then, essentially, BAP turns off its ECCM, when in conjunction with the Guardian system. Correct?

Sister Rabbi, (IS)BAP cancels out to 240m, and ECM bubble is at 90m

(edited cuz im a bit slow today)
-.o

BAP entirely loses its counter ECM ability when installed on the same mech with ECM. It retains its additional abilities.

[Koniving]

ChromeDaedalus, on 27 June 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:

Thanks Rouge Jedi, Jabels. The original thought when installing BAP and ECM together was to get the expanded sensor range AND ecm cancelling effect of the bap in addition to the other goodies. A full sensor array...

So then, essentially, BAP turns off its ECCM, when in conjunction with the Guardian system. Correct?

Sister Rabbi, (IS)BAP cancels out to 240m, and ECM bubble is at 90m

(edited cuz im a bit slow today)
-.o

Superseded.
PGI doesn't want you to become too overpowered.

[Jables McBarty]

ChromeDaedalus, on 27 June 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:

So then, essentially, BAP turns off its ECCM, when in conjunction with the Guardian system. Correct?

Sister Rabbi, (IS)BAP cancels out to 240m, and ECM bubble is at 90m

That sounds about right. When I typed out the 150/120m above, I was surprised that it was so close--I usually notice the cancellation beginning/ending when I'm about 250 meters out from the target (most salient when I'm in a Pirate's Bane against Streakcrows on Scouting).

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Just to be clear, we're saying that the ECM counter range is the same as the disrupt range, which is 90m? That COUNTER mode is limited to that same range, versus the AP's much larger radius?

I just want to be absolutely sure that I understand this correctly. Thanks!

[BaconTWOfourACTUAL]

ECM is life. BAP is an extra tonnage option, do you need it? No. Is it nice to have for faster targeting and ability to detect powered down mechs? Yes.

[Fnord Asteroid]

Yes, Sister, you understand correctly. 90m bubble for ECM. Counter or Disrupt. 240m Bubble for BAP. I can't speak for clan tech. Stuff is just grimy to me.

I would like to add that I have never had more fun than when I put a Command Console in my tricked out, BAP and Advanced Sensor wielding, STK-3F(C). So mean...when I can get missiles on target, but I digress.

Thanks for the good info. See ya'll when the Cyclops come out (i'm such a chump for sensors)