122 replies to this topic

[Jables McBarty]

Mcchuggernaut, on 27 June 2016 - 04:16 PM, said:

Very true, but I would also counter that this is a computer game. In a real-life battle all the effects of a vast and complex reality come into play, and "fairness" and "balance" don't really apply. One side could have high ground, overwhelming numbers, be sick with dysentery, not have enough warm winter clothing, moral comes into play, ad nauseum...

But I view that as reality, and separate from a computer game with rules meant to ensure those with skill do well, not an advantage based on luck. I just don't like any kind of random chance mechanic tilting whether I win or lose at a game (probably why I don't gamble). That's just how I feel about it personally.

Which is why I think your problem is not Polar Highlands as a map, but the fact that one chooses a 'mech before knowing what map they'll play on.

Because the only random chance here is how many LRM/ECM/AMS 'mechs (and willing and able scouts, and assault escorts, not to mention communicative, cooperative teammates in general) get allocated to each side.

Personally, I have no problem accepting the weaknesses of my particular loadout, but then I always vote either Polar or Terra simply because I want more variety (or Forest Colony if that one has fallen out of rotation for some time).

But my feelings are, honestly, a red herring. I think the problem comes down to the solaris vs. immersion divide. Perfect balance belongs in an esport, but not necessarily in an immersive 'mech sim. And the opposite is true for asymmetrical game modes.

[Pjwned]

Mcchuggernaut, on 27 June 2016 - 05:15 PM, said:

Well, if you are going to be civil and ask a legitimate question I have no problem answering: I know exactly where this is going. Your bringing up the point that clan LRMS don't come out all in one burst, like IS LRMs. Because of this, AMS is a bit harder on Clan LRMs than IS LRMs. This is true. It's also why I don't chain-fire Clan Lrms. I also believe these numbers are for IS LRMs vs. AMS. Can't be absolutely certain about this, but I'm sure at 3.5 DPS the AMS is still only getting an extra missile or two per volley at most. This doesn't matter much at all in the whole scheme of things when you can pack bigger launchers in Clan mechs because of lower tonnage, space requirements, and better heat dissipation. Your still going to overwhelm multiple AMS systems relatively easily.

I think you're underestimating AMS and overestimating LRMs for 3 main reasons:

1. I'm not convinced that AMS is more or less only marginally stronger against clan LRMs, even with a lot of LRM tubes in play, because stream fire makes a pretty big difference; unfortunately I don't have any solid numbers for AMS vs clan LRMs right now though.

2. The AMS Overload module works differently now, and instead of increasing AMS fire rate it increases the damage of each bullet to 6 so it only takes 2 shots per missile with the module now, which I'm pretty sure is a stronger effect.

3. Even if the above 2 points don't have all that much of an impact, the assumption is still that you don't get rained on for days no matter what map you're playing on, so even if AMS does get overwhelmed by a lot of missiles it still helps quite a bit unless you're just being a bad and sitting there taking so many LRMs for so long that even a company full of Kitfoxes couldn't save you, in which case the problem is the player and not the map.

[wanderer]

Mcchuggernaut, on 27 June 2016 - 03:42 PM, said:

So 6.16 x 8 AMS systems = about 49 missiles. I would be landing only 11 missiles. Not good, but even with a VERY unlikely 8 AMS-equipped enemy mechs all standing close enough that all their AMS systems are in range to work together AND using AMS overload AND range modules, I'm still hitting my target with 1\6 of my volley. Of course, some of even those missiles may just miss the target because of the ridiculous spread mechanic LRM15s have right now, but you get the point.

Without the exception of that nearly worst-case 8 x AMS + modules scenario, I'm usually just cutting right through AMS. With a couple AMS mechs standing together or maybe a triple AMS Kit Fox running around, LRM5 spammers will have a bad day, but massed volleys of 10s and 15s are still going to ruin someone's day pretty fast. Which is the reason to take the bigger, more inaccurate launchers at all.

Mind you, AMS also can get to engage longer than expected- that is, if you fire at a target and your opponent has friendly AMS between you and him, that AMS may very well engage you across the full front-to-back arc, damaging a spread even further. I used to have a triple AMS Kit Fox and that's precisely what I'd do- hide near the front (and lob LRMs from cover) and frequently get the biggest bite out of a salvo as possible because it'd be aimed at someone behind me, letting my AMS do maximum damage.